2.4 GHz tranny black ribbon

[Frank Skilbeck]

Damm, I've just applied to go onto Dragons Den to get funding for the manufacture and marketing of my patent (not yet applied for) black flag and holder for 2.4 sets, looks like you lot will undo all the good work done to convince the powers that be to introduce this.

I was even going to do them with different patterns on for DSM, DSM2, FAAST etc etc

[Keiran Arnold]

Manny Williamson the

BMFA Development Officer.

[Keiran Arnold]

Have "penned " e-mail to BMFA : awaiting reply with baited breath

[John Cole]

Erfolg: you say "SMAE was seen by many as irrelevant to them, I suspect the BFMA may be similar".

BMFA is the current operating / trading name for SMAE Ltd.  See the back cover of the Handbook.

They thought that by changing the name they would fool people.  Well...

[Erfolg]

Who said that people were easily fooled

Windscale is a completly different place to Sellafield, as Windscale is in Westmoorland and Sellafield is in Cumbria.

 So you were saying SMAE is what? and the powers that be say we are..............

Ahhh the BMFA is a democratic organisation, we do not get to vote on policy, they tell us what to do,  take our money and we should be supportive and appreciative. Because they achieve so much on our behalf, well there is the insurance, effective representation with HM Government and much more beside.

[BB]

I recently visited a club where the peg board was virtually empty, save half a dozen pegs. Most members being on 2.4. These fellows were simply required to place their (laminated) club members card atop the peg board when first arriving at the patch.

[Andy Harris]

Hmm the pennant would hardly be in the wind on 2.4, and what wind it did catch would make it more likey to flap over the crucial controls.

A peg would be safer, but a damp peg could load the TX since 2.4GHz is the resonant frequency of water. (the base of the aerial would be the safest place)

A peg on the handle is better because peg discipline is maintained for those that have both 2.4 and 35 

[Ultymate]

Erfolg wrote (see)

Who said that people were easily fooled

Windscale is a completly different place to Sellafield, as Windscale is in Westmoorland and Sellafield is in Cumbria.

 So you were saying SMAE is what? and the powers that be say we are..............

Ahhh the BMFA is a democratic organisation, we do not get to vote on policy, they tell us what to do,  take our money and we should be supportive and appreciative. Because they achieve so much on our behalf, well there is the insurance, effective representation with HM Government and much more beside.

 Erfolg the SMAE and the BMFA are to all intents and purposes the same thing, both emblems appear on the rear of your "BMFA" handbook, and whilst talking of the handbook most of what appears therein are "not " as a lot of people think rules but reccomendations for clubs to enact or modify as they see fit to suit local issues . Like many things in life it's not perfect but at the end of the day you can always opt out find your own insurance and go you your own way not something to be done lightly in today's letigious society. Either that or gird up your loins and start a campaign to create a more democratic BMFA. Speaking from personal experience I know for a fact that the BMFA do a lot of behind the scenes work on the modeller's behalf most of which goes unreported. No organisation is perfect but come on take your "Gripe Water" have a burp and enjoy your flying

[260 Flyer]

I don't think this thread started out to bash the BMFA, but merely to highlight a nonsensical rule.

I understand Erfolgs frustration in a world where common sense is being replaced by hard copy rules and anyone who exercises the former is to vilified or even penalised.

On the whole the BMFA do a wonderful job. In my experience most problems seem to start at club level with their interpretation and application of the rules, but in this day and age with lawyers straining at the leash for litigation, I suppose we should not blame the club committee for applying the letter of the law.

If only they could make rules to control the weather!

[Erfolg]

I agree that the rule in my mind is nonsensical. I would like an organisation, that minimised rules, those which cannot be justified abolished.

I am a member of the BFMA, purely for insurance and club rules. I much preferred the situation where the club insurance was independent, but our club went with the BFMA, which I accept. It would be irresponsible in many ways to fly with no insurance. Yet I still would wish to encourage children and parents to fly aircraft/toys without BFMA insurance.

Organisations such as the BFMA would do themselves a lot of good if they published thier work and its effectiveness.

I do see the need for the BFMA, I would much prefer to want to be a member, rather than coerced. Its characteristics would be a flat structure, rather than a hierarchical structure typical of the 19th Century. Where members were encouraged to be part of the discussions, there views welcomed. In most walks of life the "Committee Man" approach has disappeared as much loved by Working Men's Clubs and Political Organisations.

I would like to encourage change for the better, but do accept that i am probably a minority of one.

"No rules without representation"

Erfolg

[Tim Mackey]

"Yet I still would wish to encourage children and parents to fly aircraft/toys without BFMA insurance."

Small toys like PiccoZ sure...but "aircraft" - really? - I think Insurance ( as much as I dislike paying for it ! ) is to be recommended to anybody flying model aircraft - especially in so called public places like parks 

[260 Flyer]

Push together foam glider £1.99

BMFA membership £28

Living with litigation culture PRICELESS !

[Tim Mackey]

[Andy Harris]

Hmmm at the risk of thread polution:

Park Flyer Definition ??

Is a note I made about park flyers.  Having just returned from a Stateside holiday I found that the sensible attitude of the AMA actually plays out in practice.  I had a great time with the San Diego Electric and Silent Flyers.

 Andy

[Mike Rolls]

Erfolg

No rules without representation? In case you haven't noticed, you ARE represented - if you don't use the representation, that's your problem.

Mike

[Chris Marshall]

My Club requires the BFMA blag pennant. My Solution is to read the recommendations carefully, where there is no definition of size for the 2.4G black pennant. Mine is therefore 5mm wide by about 100mm long- nowhere near big enough to be a hazard, but big enough to be seen when you are close enough to see the aerial. I've not actually flown at the club field yet so I'm not sure if it will be accepted.  I personally think that pennants on 35MHz actually increase the risk; it doesn't matter what it says on the pennant/flag, if the crystal is not the same frequency.

I am strongly in favour of pegboard systems, and maintaining a strict discipline with them. It was this lack of discipline in some places I fly that prompted me to change to 2.4G so early.

[Erfolg]

Chris

Although possible to fly on 35 without a peg board, where small numbers are involved. There is a real risk of a frequency issue. I therfore much prefer to use a peg board. Although to the individual reponsible for the board it must be a chore. Ensuring that all pegs are present etc. I do use a flag on the transmitter, I may be the only one in the our club. Causes me no problem and I instantly know which frequency i am on, also others can see at a glanze.

Generally speaking our club is very sensible regarding control, balancing control, freedom, convienace and risk, to achieve harmony (most of the time). Yes we do have one, may be more, who take the attitude of, "do not do as i do", "but as I say". Generally they can be ignored.

I will be suprised if a black flag will be required. Most members are very pragmatic, asking, what does it achieve.

If required to, I will also use a black flag. Although I would guess whoever advocated the system, would take the view that they are excempt. Because absolutist always see themselves as special.

Erfolg    

[flytilbroke]

As a 2.4GHz transmitter has such short aerial it does not make ANY sense to have a ribbon or other pennant. Except to identify that the TX is 2.4. It is all too easy for a model flier to try and use a 35MHz transmitter with the aerial down, when the use of Orange or Black pennants as appropriate, can help to avoid this.

For the same reason pegboards should still be used when at all possible.

[Chris Marshall]

That sounds like an argument not to have black pennants, i.e. if you have a pennant/channel flag you have an aerial that needs extending, if you do not you do not.  Real safety however lies in adopting a procedure and sticking to it, i.e. the point at which you exten the aerial should be the same each time you fly. This will depend on local club rules, my club require the aerial to be collapsed at switch on and stay that way until you have left the pits.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Chris Marshall]

The reason for the procedure is so that the transmitted signal is attenuated, so that if you are not on the channel you think you are, and there is someone already flying you will A) not shoot them down, and B) possibly tell from the behaviour of your kit that this is the case.  Not guaranteed by any means, but useful. A friend of mine has experienced this exact situation, and thus probably saved one if not two models. As far as the consequent mismatch of the TX output stage and increased heating, I think that it was probably quite a few years ago that this was any real concern. I suspect that nowadays if the handbook recommends extending the aerial first, it is only so that it is not forgotten.

[flytilbroke]

Certainly IS a good reason to keep using the pennant system and the pegboard.

Get a bit used to using 2.4 GHz and you get out of the habit of extending the aerial, then go use 35 MHz either ones own or on behalf of someone else, whoops . The visual impact however small of continuing to use a pennant and pegboard helps alleviate the risk.

 I would not be surprised for other guys here to either have made the mistake or seen others do it. I have seen it happen a couple of times now, luckily with no real harm done.

[Chris Marshall]

I don't agree. If you get used to having a pennant on 2.4 and not extending the aerial you will not make the visual connection if you pick up a 27 or 35MHz set with a pennant. The fact that it is a different colour will not matter,as it is a different set, you will expect it to look different.There is more difference between pennant and no pennant than orange pennant and black penant. The bigger difference gives you the bigger clue as to what to do with the aerial.

I do agree entirely (as I have already said) with the use of pegboards.

 I personally do not intend to have anything more to do with 35MHz. In the event that I attempt to help someone with a 35MHz set ( or any other band) I would treat it as something new and think through it usage before ploughing ahead, that would mean all aspects- i.e rate switches etc, and aerial usage, as well as how I expect the model to behave.

Notwithstanding, I am obeying the rules and I have a pennant on my 2.4G set, albeit one that is as visually unobtrusive as I can make it. Black is a good colour for starters!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Myron Beaumont]

Cor Blimey

I'm in agreement with Eric on the output tranny overload for obvious reasons on 35 Meg especially = just like 27 days

Why doesn't everyone wear a  T / sweat shirt with their frequency emblazened on the front & back and be done with b....y clothes pegs ! Talk about anachronistic

Those on 2.4 could wear all black More mix ups of practicality versus politics as if there wasnt enough already

Think I'll go back to bed now   Its too early to get grumpy -Or shall I watch the Grand Prix ?