Dougie Swan 1 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Hi I am thinking of building a dh60 either from plans or a kit but I would like to make the wings folding Now, I found some info on line with details of the hinges and stuff which also showed support for the wings built into the centre section but forgot to bookmark the page I have the Dr Sun plans but these dont show any support for the wings other than the hinge and locking sections Can anyone point me in the direction of more info/drawings of the wing folding and locking mechanism Thanks Dougie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfan Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I know on the real 'planes the hinge and locking mechanism are unbelievably flimsy! We have a Hornet Moth at a flying club I belong to and when I saw the 1/4" bolt and toilet door shoot bolt I decided I wouldn't accept the flight I was offered! Cheers, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Hi Dougie, Have seen some video in you tube of DH60's with folding wings. May be useful. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Yes, the system sucks and the aircraft need grounding. Let's see how many failures there are once the Moth series have been in service for more than the piffling 90-odd years so far... More seriously, I found it quite amazing how a Chipmunk engine's subframe was attached to the firewall mountings by 4 (if memory serves me correctly) half inch bolts. Edited By Martin Harris on 09/08/2019 10:50:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 My DH60 is the DBS&S 58" Cirrus Moth in Gypsy guise. I (very) briefly thought about making the wings fold but decided against it as the model assembles very quickly so there would be no real transport advantages. In any case I'm definitely in the 'sport scale' camp. Ian Redshaw had a bigger (1/4 scale?) Hornet (I think) Moth with folding wings which made it easy to transport with the wings folded. It got damaged on the ground when a freak gust of wind blew it away. Not sure if it was ever repaired. In any case, he would be a good person to ask about how it was done. Geoff PS IIRC Ian uses the name Reg Shaw in his whimsy Edited By Geoff Sleath on 09/08/2019 10:59:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Part of the challenge with these apparently 'flimsy' fixings is our human tendency to equate 'bigger' with 'stronger'. Actually of course, that often isn't so. Toughness - which is typically more important for durability - may be better with a slimmer, lighter piece of structure. The stiffness of a hollow tube compared to an equivalent weight solid rod is a classic example. That said, when I first looked at a Hornet Moth's folding mechanism I too was taken aback at its simplicity and lightness. And yes the bolts typically used to secure engines in light aircraft do look undersized, especially if you plan to do aerobatics. Thinking about the torque loads alone makes you wince. I used to fly Pawnee glider tugs. Hefty, tough design made for rugged use. Now I fly a Eurofox, an uprated microlight aircraft which has some radio control model size fixings and some R/C adapted minor control attachments. It is in fact a very capable and strong aircraft, though I still have a hankering for the reassuring bulk of the (expensive to run) Pawnee! And if you ever see a modern airliner with the wing root fairings removed, the actual retaining bolts are quite surprisingly slender and few in number. That big root section looks impressively solid... An excellent materials engineer and trainer whom I knew said that the most astonishing about metals is not how strong they are but how weak. They all have much higher Young's moduli than their in service strengths might suggest. Why? - because they are full of imperfections. Still, best not tell the 'general public' that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Mike Sun described his DH 60 Moth details such as wing folding fittings in an article in RC Scale Aircraft Extra 1984. I reckon that will explain all you need to know about his DH60 plan. Unfortunately that issue isn't available from Magazine Exchange.co.uk ( other issues are though - worth buying at 5 pounds I reckon ) However they do have 2 copies of the original RCME Sept 1980 with construction article for the DH60 and they cost around a pound so buy 1 if you don't have it already. Dougie - send me a Private Message with your email address if you want a scanned copy of the RC Scale Extra article. Edited By kc on 09/08/2019 12:29:34 Edited By kc on 09/08/2019 12:30:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Swan 1 Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Thanks kc PM sent Dougie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 If it helps , I have the Ripmax Flying Legends DH 60 1/4 scale. This has the folding wing arrangement. I will post you some pictures early next week of you need me to. The flying wires are essential. Edited By cymaz on 09/08/2019 13:46:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Swan 1 Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Thanks cymaz Dougie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 That's beautiful work, cymaz, and a lovely aeroplane. I'd be scared to fly it ! Edited By John Bisset on 09/08/2019 15:41:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Swan 1 Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 I have ordered a copy of the Sept '80 rcme for the construction notes of the dh60 by Mike Sun, thanks kc However the plans I have show no detail of how the upper centre section is attached to the struts and ni info on what the hacksaw blade strips are mounted on to support the wings Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Thanks Dougie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Found THIS thread...might have something useful in it. There’s nearly 30 pages though! Edited By cymaz on 10/08/2019 11:47:09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Check out this site he has built a gorgeous moth and i think he would be open to helping you. http://www.RaysModels.ca Edited By Tony Richardson on 10/08/2019 12:01:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 The RCME article shows some photos of the cabane which appears to be piano wire perhaps with balsa fairings. might help a bit when viewed in conjunction with the diagrams from page 2 of the Scale Aircraft Extra article. I would expect the cabane is soldered up from piano wire with midget hacksaw blade cross pieces bound and soldered. All built into the wing centre section ( tank) and assembled using a temporary jig. The old 1983/4 Plans Handbook says the plan is fully revised - maybe one version shows this aspect better than the other. Seems to have the same plan number though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Have a look at Tim Hooper's Civilian Coupe thread here. It might provide some food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Smitheman Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I built Dr. Michael Sun's Moth back in the late nineties. It was easy and fun to build if you like cutting out wing riblets. The wing folding works really well. I used strips of 3mm Tuffnal glued in to the structure and tapped for M3 nylon bolts which provide the rear pivots and front fixings. I am suppose that fiberglass sheet would do the job as an alternative. The rigging on this model is working hence the light hardware being adequate. I still fly it, it is an absolute pleasure to fly, and I have had no problems with it. My only recommendation is to use thicker than 1/16" sheet for the turtle deck as it is a bit of a starved cow back there! I used silk and dope, so this might not be a problem with other methods. The Saito 45S is a good match, well over powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 As a simpler and smaller scale option , I found a copy of a 48 1/2" span DH60 Moth plan, given away free with RCME in Dec 1985. That doesn't have any folding wing information so is probably a simplified and reduced scale effort and hence not of much interest to you I expect. I haven't found the article to go with it, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hooper Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Posted by Chris Bott - Moderator on 10/08/2019 12:35:08: Have a look at Tim Hooper's Civilian Coupe thread here. It might provide some food for thought. Thanks Chris, I was about to link to the thread myself! Wandering around various aircraft collections, I've always been amazed just how tiny the wing locking mechanisms are. Mind you, a biplane's rigging wires take all the flight loads, so I guess all the locking latches have to cope with is the drag caused by the airspeed. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I have looked at the Dr Sun drawing as it is very accurate, and thought the hinge method, using hacksaw blades was very novel. I don't see why it shouldn't work fine. We do tend to over engineer our models. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry C 1 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Hi Doug, some info I received from Ray "RaysModels.ca" when he was setting up his folding wings on his 1/4 scale DH60 Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry C 1 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Hello again Doug, some info on the 1/4 scale DH60 jury struts as well for folding wings on my build log, these had turned out great and look and function exactly like a full size DH60, spring loaded and fold up and lock in to the upper rear inner flying wire bracket hope this helps 1/4 Scale DH60 Jury Struts Cheers, Terry Edited By Terry C 1 on 07/09/2019 18:44:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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