EarlyBird Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 So if I buy a fret saw it will see me out then, or did you have more than one in fifty years? Bottom sheeting and rib caps fitted. I am running out of work on this wing so I had better start on the other wing as I have promised before. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I must have had a couple over those years. It travelled round in the RAF for a long time and while it did not go to ADen with me it did go to Germany. I bought my first 1in 1954. I had bought a KK Ladybird kit whoich has a lot of 1/8th ply to cut out. I had never done this and took it to a modller in the same village and asked him to cut it all out. He said OK and then did the right thing...he left it for a couple of weeks. So I took it all home, cycled into town and bought my own fretsaw. and cut it all out. That is the only way to learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 True you have to do it yourself to learn. He did you a big favour, not doing it for you, little did he know how big a favour to you and subsequently to all of us who benefit from your designs. Will owning a fret saw make me as good a designer as you? If so I had better get one quick. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 No, but possibly if you tried hard enough over enough years then who knows! I guess that Peter's first fretsaw was the traditional hand version which has a large frame but quite difficult to use until you are skilled. An electric one is nice to use but for just a few aircraft parts the smaller hand version called a jewellers saw or a piercing saw is easier to use than a large hand fretsaw, but takes the same blades. Good quality modern blades snap less than they used to. For about a fiver it's worth having until you get an electric one and still handy for odd jobs afterwards. Used with a Vee cutout 'table'. Blades must point to handle and its then like a pullsaw - cuts on the pull stroke not the push. Will cut out all the formers in a traditional design like Peters. I notice that there is a tendancy for modern designs to go to extremes with extensive CAD designed intricate linked parts which are fine for lasercut kits but lots of tricky work if cutting by hand or electric saw. Peter Miller's designs avoid this - that's why they are so popular! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 There is only one way to learn to design and that is to start doing it. My book from Sarik will give the basics and people say it has got their first designs going. I designed my first model a long time ago I had been trying to learn to fly control line without achieving a lap. because they were too small and too fast. So I designed and built a control line model.The wings were more like a free flight model it had a Mills.75 for power. It flew very slowly. If I gave up elevator it would point it's nose up and think about climbing, if I pointed it down it went down. I flew it round and round and when the engine stopped I landed it. I have never stopped designing since then and that was in 1954/5 So I tell people if you can build from a kit you can design a model. As for those fretted out laser kits, they are appalling. Why? because while the areas running along the length are strong enough all the verticals and diagonals have the grain across the narrow dimension fo the wood. No strength at all. My current design which I am just starting is a modification of a control line model that I designed back in 1974. The Duchess. It will be a bit bigger and electric powered for 4 channel radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Second wing started I am using the upside down technique. This completely confused me to start with but I have worked it out. I think. No I am sure. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 What is the "Upside down" Technique??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Build the second wing on the plan with the leading edge on the bottom and the trailing edge on the top. So the main spar goes where the aileron spar was and aileron spar goes where the main spar was. In the photo the plan is the same way up as on the first wing. I hope I have not just made this up? I noticed you have plans for both wings and I was going to ask where you got the left wing plan from. After not much more thinking I realised what a dumb question that was. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Ah!! Of course, they save space by only giving one wing.. I hate that. One answer is to get your local print shop or office supply shop to do a mirror image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Aileron ribs glued in place. Shear webs used to keep the ribs vertical. Inboard ribs not glued but just used to position the aileron spar. Next I will add the TE bottom sheet and remove the temporary packing under the spar. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Oh well best laid plans and all that. Started by cutting and fitting the TE to the board. I saw some thing odd with two of the glued R3 ribs. They did not line up with the others. Upon close inspection I saw that I had glued them on the wrong side of the line at the aileron end. Oh no I made a mistake! Looking at the photo above the second rib in is clearly wrong because the dotted line is more visible looking from left to right. Quick fix no problem. Time for a second coffee and a moment to destress. I thought I would own up to this error before you all pointed it out. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Wouldn't matter on those two ribs Stev e, other than purely for aesthetic considerations. By the time the cap strips are on it wouldn't even show. Except that YOU would know it's there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 You beat me to it Bob!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 If I were to quote some of MY errors building from plans I'd have to hand in my transmitter! Odd size wings, built on the skew, bowed - it can all be fixed adding or taking away wood or if not then it can be hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Oh yes just put the cap strips on the correct line. Why didn't I think of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Posted by Bob Cotsford on 30/07/2020 10:34:11: If I were to quote some of MY errors building from plans I'd have to hand in my transmitter! Odd size wings, built on the skew, bowed - it can all be fixed adding or taking away wood or if not then it can be hidden. Two left wings....One side of the tailplane longer than the other but that was on a plan and corrected before building. Joining the doublers gto the sides and making two left sides!! But then they always say "The man who never made a mistake never made anything!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Berriman Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Hi Peter M better get round to your local Argos if open as the end of the catalogue is coming quickly. It's been going 48 years Edited By Keith Berriman on 30/07/2020 18:06:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I have a couple of old copies thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 I went flying today But managed some more work on the second wing. Another good day. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Leading edge shaped and glued. Bottom sheeting pulled up and glued. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Excellent! I went flying yesterday. Also managed to do about an hour at the drawing board. Hope to do more today as it is too hot to even think of flying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Well done Peter keep them coming! Top sheet wet and being bent on the wing. Usual plastic bag and old batteries as I don't have any Argos catalogues. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR 71 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Hot ? i managed to take off my thermal vest yesterday as i was doing some digging, thats the third time since i moved back here from Cyprus last September Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Posted by SR 71 on 31/07/2020 10:04:25: Hot ? i managed to take off my thermal vest yesterday as i was doing some digging, thats the third time since i moved back here from Cyprus last September I know the feeling. I had it back in 62 after a tour in Aden. The trouble is that we never get time to aclimatise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 I was going to sheet the top leading edge but I have to join the wings before the sheet is glued in place. Aileron next. Control horn ply, hinge blocks and triangular brace all fixed ready for the TE top sheet and aileron cap strip. Waiting for glue to dry again!!! Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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