alan p Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Hi Danny Having followed your other builds and used some of your ideas and solutions, so I suspect your guesses and lofting are well sound, just watch the blood pressure. Alan p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 LOL Alan you have more faith in me than I have..... Anyway stripped the underside sheeting off the port wing, cleaned it all up. Created the the jigging feet, and sheeted again. Getting bored with this...... Anyway hopefully when this dries I can look at joining the two panels. I know rib 1 is at the wrong angle, I will have to try and remove it, without wrecking it. We are making progress, but not out of the woods yet PS this was the new rib 4, as you can see it was too short, but the U/C mount areas seemed correct when compared to the ply doubler so kept the nose proportions. The spar slot seemed right too, so really added 4 mm to the mid section, and a couple of mm to the nose Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 A right PITA I can't sleep on a problem , the problem keeps me awake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 I hear you Eric, same here. But it is surprising how often I awake with an answer Enjoying your 88 build BTW Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Managed to get the wings joined today, Had a great deal of trouble getting the braces to align, until I realised that I hadn't measured out from the root rib correctly, and was exaggerating the dihedral. Once that was sorted things started slotting into place. The leading edge around the root is quite tricky to find the information from the plan but I got there in the end. So I made 2 x balsa jigs 45.5mm high, these were positioned at 385 mm out from the root. And securely pinned down. With a datum line right down the middle of the board the wings were positioned over the line, using engineering set squares to ensure the wings were true. The jigs have to be further packed at the trailing edge to allow for the additional sheeting now on the spars. Once happy all was glued and left to dry. I have never struggled so much with a wing, well not since the DB Chipmunk, then there was the..........okay, solving problems is what makes it fun So I think I am back on track. Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 03/09/2020 15:14:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 And we have the wing as far as I can take it at this stage. I will branch off and do the ailerons and flaps next. PS I know how you love to hear weights etc. 262g so far Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 03/09/2020 16:50:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Excellent Danny. So easy to give up on a model and it's great to see you come up with a solution and put the work in to solve it. I need to give myself a kick and get back into building so I have problems to solve again!! Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Had to try all the bits loosely together, well you just have to don't you? Ailerons tomorrow, starting with RDS pockets. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan p Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Excellent, motoring along nicely again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Thanks Alan, yes bimbling along again. Lots of thinking tonight, not much to see for it Wondering if I can mill some RDS pockets from Paxolin, but have a feeling the stuff is hard on tools. May have to be ply and melamine as usual. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Great wing recovery and speedy work too Danny. I am interested to know how you derived your calculations for setting up the dihedral. On my P47 I have completed both wing panels and fully glassed them, but have yet to join them. The dihedral brace was built in place on one panel and a slot cut in the root rib of the other at the main spar. I have trialed the fitting and although the fit is pretty good a variation from the correct dihedral could easily creep in when gluing together. The top spar is flat and the bottom tapers giving increased dihedral. Ideally I would prop both wings (right side up) at a measured point for joining as you have done, but I am unsure how to arrive at the correct height and location of the supports as you did. Any advice most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Completing the wing sheet with it all off the board sounds like madness. I do like your jig posts, that's a really neat solution. What's the logic behind splitting the sheeting at the rib outboard of retracts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Posted by Danny Fenton on 03/09/2020 21:38:00: Had to try all the bits loosely together, well you just have to don't you? Ailerons tomorrow, starting with RDS pockets. Cheers Danny --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I spend nearly as much time putting the pieces loosely together as I do building. Coming along nicely Danny, just wondering when you are going to fly some of your models. Cheers Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan p Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Hi Danny Paxolin is a Jyekle & Hyde material to m/c. wears tools and if the tool binds will start melting. Also beware of the dust and fumes if it warms up. (Resins and such) Light cuts with very sharp tools. Definitely need a mask as you will end up tasting it. Alan p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Posted by Nick Somerville on 04/09/2020 08:05:50: Great wing recovery and speedy work too Danny. I am interested to know how you derived your calculations for setting up the dihedral. On my P47 I have completed both wing panels and fully glassed them, but have yet to join them. The dihedral brace was built in place on one panel and a slot cut in the root rib of the other at the main spar. I have trialed the fitting and although the fit is pretty good a variation from the correct dihedral could easily creep in when gluing together. The top spar is flat and the bottom tapers giving increased dihedral. Ideally I would prop both wings (right side up) at a measured point for joining as you have done, but I am unsure how to arrive at the correct height and location of the supports as you did. Any advice most welcome. Hi Nick, the P-47 is done the same way as this P51. you build one panel, then raise it off the board using the triangular jig shown on the plan, then build the second panel flat on the board. the triangle is obviously the total dihedral. In my case I built two wing panels and then joined them using two triangular jigs, but the height of each was halved. is this what you have done? if so and you have sheeting on the underside you will need to set the root rib of both panels true to the board, you do still have the tabs at the rear/underneath? the ribs usually will rest on the spars and the rear tab to be true. but remember to add some 1/16 packing under the trailing edge if the spar is sheeted. if you have removed all the tabs you will have to make a cradle. check out DavidQ's Mustang build, in the BT section. he shows how he made a cradle for his wing. Glad you liked the post idea , annoyed that I didn't do it sooner, wasted a lot of time and two sheets of 1/16. Nigel, the idea is to allow access to the bell-cranks for the ailerons, flaps and drop tanks, whilst still imparting some torsional rigidity to the wing. But really it needs the little legs re-fitting when the all the other sheeting is done. just make sure you keep the rear tabs until the very end, they give you reference points. once they are gone you have to make a cradle using the rib drawings from the plan. Eric, I rarely go flying, its just stage to prove that the model is finished. It is always fraught, and I have to co-ordinate for someone that knows what they are doing to take pics as invariably its a model featured in the magazine, so it becomes an exercise rather than just a trip to the field. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Posted by alan p on 04/09/2020 09:52:55: Hi Danny Paxolin is a Jyekle & Hyde material to m/c. wears tools and if the tool binds will start melting. Also beware of the dust and fumes if it warms up. (Resins and such) Light cuts with very sharp tools. Definitely need a mask as you will end up tasting it. Alan p Thanks Alan, perhaps one of my poorer ideas I could mill the pockets from alloy block, but for expediency maybe stick to melamine Thanks again for you help Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Hi Thanks for the advice Danny. Another look at the plan I found the drawing showing the propped up wing from which measurements can been taken to make some underwing jigging supports. It all sort of works on a dry fit and the roots align nicely. I think it will require a fair bit of epoxy and micro balloons whereas yours and Brian’s method requires the minimum. Oh well the decision was made a fair way back to complete the wings separately in order to keep things compact for the installation of everything, as well as glassing (my workshop is not especially spacious). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Oh that is good news I would suggest you glass over that joint too, just to be safe, I know the joiner will do lots of the work, but a lot of a wings strength is through the skin. Looks great though well done, did you make a cradle/support, the shape of the underside of that rib? Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 took some time to work on the RDS pockets as i need to know how much of a recess to make in the ailerons. The pockets are this time made from 1mm carbon board that I bought years ago from HobbyKing and have never found a use for. 2x 1/8 square hardwood is CA'd to one surface, one at each end. These are then sanded so that two lengths of 3/32 piano wire are pinched. ie the wood is sanded a tho' or so under size. Epoxy is then used and the parts clamped, including the two piano wire spacers. Once set the edges are made pretty and piano tested in the slot, it should be a snug fit. Also in shot you can see the very nifty RDS "top-Hat" adaptors Eric Strefford kindly printed for me in some very hard plastic. They seem to work a treat and tapped nicely for the 2.5 mm grubs (2). Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 04/09/2020 16:48:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Yes the cradle supports were traced off the rib section drawing and the appropriate extra thickness added parallel to the front and rear tabs. Certainly a glass fibre cuff all round which won’t show as under wing and hidden by the belly pan (which itself will add strength to the join as fixed to the lower wing surface). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Well the evening was going swimmingly until I looked at the last picture in this set...... I set the pillar drill to route the inside of the ailerons to accept the pockets centrally. After a bit of tidying up the two aileron halves were joined. I had to resort to big stuff to clamp this lot. Then there was this........... ARGHHHHHH!!!! I am just losing my marbles. The slots for the hinges should be cut in the aileron halves before they are joined!!! The hinge-line is deep in the aileron leading edge. Not insurmountable, but I have created a lot of work for myself..... annoyed as I had thought of this!!! This model is determined to remain propped in the corner of my workshop......sigh Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Once the ailerons were dry, I set to making some guides as there is some serious wood to remove. Tip and root templates were made in 32nd ply, and leading edge line were drawn as a guide. However when the template were added it became clear that rib 14 and rib 9 were too long. I modified the template by eye to the correct length. You have to keep in consideration that this wing is laminar flow, and the surfaces of the wing and ailerons/flaps are not flat, but concave. So this has to be allowed for when sanding. Out with the trusty David's plane ***** aside (I have had the same blade in mine for 10 years is that normal?) ***** A mountain of shavings later, still needs sanding, an aileron emerged, . Very satisfying nearly as much fun as rivetting. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I won't remark on your Rodney moment as I have had one too. I have similar piles of shavings and balsa dust that's why the rudder on the Ju88 will be built up. Cheers Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Took some time today to sand the ailerons and drill the hinge holes. Used the trusty Robart hinge tool, takes the pain out of the task. But please drill the before you form the leading edge Don't ask..... I used ply templates as a guide to the sanding process, and this interim shot shows how much the laminar flow aileron surfaces are curved. I used 120 grit Aluminium Oxide paper wrapped around a jar to get the surface right. I also added a 0.5mm carbon rod to the trailing edge, this is my usual trick to toughen up the trailing edge whilst giving a sharp edge. The pic above shows the carbon rod added but before the trailing edge is sanded flush with the carbon. On to the flaps now, I will start with making an MDF jig to curve the balsa sheet. Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 06/09/2020 19:16:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Posted by Danny Fenton on 04/09/2020 23:27: Out with the trusty David's plane ***** aside (I have had the same blade in mine for 10 years is that normal?) ***** A mountain of shavings later, still needs sanding, an aileron emerged, . Very satisfying nearly as much fun as rivetting. Cheers Danny Hi Danny, I had the same blade in mine for about 30 yrs, I had an 8 yr. spell off aircraft modelling and restarted last year. the David plane blade was rusty so I ordered some replacement blades probably cost more than I paid for the plane originally, then sods law I found the original spare blade which would have seen my life out .Good to see you making progress on the Mustang, Cheers Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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