MattyB Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) Very competively priced with excellent features and an all new (proprietary) ETHOS transmitter firmware... Interesting stuff, but I love OpenTX and. I’ve paid to beta test a few too many Frsky products for them in the last 7 years so I”ll be leaving this one to braver early adopters, at least for 2021... RCGroups thread (lots of speculation, but feature lists and screenshots of Ethos have now been added to early posts by the OP) T9Hobbysport preorder links... X20 (std edition) X20S (upgraded gimbals and Bluetooth audio) Edited March 5, 2021 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Looks great and early reports of ergonomics are very good too. But like you, I'll not be an early adopter. Let others iron out the wrinkles and if Ethos eventually gets glowing reports then maybe, I'll have a look. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Exactly the same as you MattyB but does look like a nice bit of kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I reckon I could happily buy one of those, lots about it suits me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I am interested too, doesn't support OpentX at this time which is a bummer, but maybe the built in OS "Ethos" will be okay. I like the adfitional switches and slider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 9 hours ago, Chris Bott - Moderator said: Looks great and early reports of ergonomics are very good too. They do, but then only Youtubers involved in the early testing have posted so far, and we know from past history if they say anything negative they will be booted out of the loop for future releases. I am a bit worried it is a bit short in the body - in some shots it looks like the heel of users hands are floating off the bottom of the TX - but even so it certainly looks better ergonomically than the X10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Ballinger Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 If or when my X10 gives problems I will certainly be in the queue. It sometimes seems like I am the only person to have ever stuck with the FrOS viz OpenTx but I have never had a problem and it has coped with anything I have ever need for fixed wing flying be it power or gliders. Ran out of capacity for logic switches occasionally but that is all. My only real criticism is that it was never developed after initial release which meant that it did not fully support new hardware such as the neuron ESCs. I would have no qualms about tying ETHOS. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Ever since moving to Horus with the nice big colour screen I've done virtually all my programming on the Tx. So using Ethos, which from what I've seen is not dissimilar to OpenTx but has a much more up to date and smartphone like feel, doesn't worry me at all. Are there any signs of being able to take model backups and being able to move them between transmitters? (Not least to have a backup Tx and to use that feature of ACCESS). A conversion between OpenTx and Ethos files sounds impossible, but that would be a killer app if it could ever be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 19 minutes ago, Chris Bott - Moderator said: ...Are there any signs of being able to take model backups and being able to move them between transmitters? (Not least to have a backup Tx and to use that feature of ACCESS). A conversion between OpenTx and Ethos files sounds impossible, but that would be a killer app if it could ever be done. There is supposed to be an Ethos PC simulator in the offing, so I’m sure model transfer will be possible. I doubt Frsky will be investing in a tool to transfer OpenTX setups to Ethos early on (especially as we know Ethos will be missing some features like GVARs initially), but given OpenTX mastermind Bertrand has been hired by Frsky to lead the Ethos development the community might be able to develop a tool in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Interesting. Looks like a giant killer to me. Just needs a MPM developing to allow pain free switchover from other brands and it could steal a lot of custom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) As an early adopter on the original VFT module system, the following DFT system, the first batch X9D and then a first gen X12S I must be one lucky guineapig as the only issues I've had were when a batch of V8R receivers were fitted with out of spec capacitors which were prone to going pop on power-up. I've got itchy fingers, I want an X20 to play with but I may just grit my teeth and wait for Ethos to be released for my X10S. Converting from OpenTX to Ethos shouldn't be such a big deal for me as I fly only electric models with standard switch, mixer and telemetry display setups so I can just pick my most complex setup, convert that then clone it for other models. My biggest concern is that FrSky developed a unique module bay for recent transmitters rather than sticking with the standard JR bay. Now third party modules such as the various MPM units need to be developed specifically for the FrSky Lite bay and submitted to FrSky for approval and inclusion in Ethos. This seems to cutting off their own noses to spite a couple of former employees. The big question? How long will I resist the lure of the Buy Now buttons?? Edited March 6, 2021 by Bob Cotsford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Chris Bott - Moderator said: .... Are there any signs of being able to take model backups and being able to move them between transmitters? (Not least to have a backup Tx and to use that feature of ACCESS). .... Chris, there is an SD card which is reportedly used to hold much the same as an X10/X12S running OpenTX - models, images, radio settings etc. so I would imagine that model files could be copied between SD cards while waiting for the Ethos PC application to make an appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 41 minutes ago, Gary Manuel said: Interesting. Looks like a giant killer to me. Just needs a MPM developing to allow pain free switchover from other brands and it could steal a lot of custom. Unfortunately Frsky don’t agree... “FrSky has a program for manufacturers that wish to have their module supported by the X20 ETHOS system. They just need to ask for support from FrSky for system integration. The module must meet the laws that govern RF module devices and the module hardware and firmware programming must be the sole Intellectual Property of the company manufacturing the module. Devices that involve Intellectual Property theft would not qualify.” I guess this shows how much of their market has been lost to the MPM based radios, and is a bit rich considering a) the MPM does not infringe any intellectual property laws anywhere, and b) their own history of manufacturing reverse engineered products. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Ballinger Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Bob, have they said they will release Ethos for the X10 or is that an assumption? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, MattyB said: Unfortunately Frsky don’t agree... “FrSky has a program for manufacturers that wish to have their module supported by the X20 ETHOS system. They just need to ask for support from FrSky for system integration. The module must meet the laws that govern RF module devices and the module hardware and firmware programming must be the sole Intellectual Property of the company manufacturing the module. Devices that involve Intellectual Property theft would not qualify.” I guess this shows how much of their market has been lost to the MPM based radios, and is a bit rich considering a) the MPM does not infringe any intellectual property laws anywhere, and b) their own history of manufacturing reverse engineered products. ? If there is no intellectual property infringement, then there should be no issue modifying say, the Jumper 4in1 to fit in the X20 module bay. I don't see the X20 as being in direct competition with the likes of Jumper or Radiomaster as I suspect that they are targetting different ends of the market in terms of price. I can't see the X20 being cheap when it's released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Between £250 and £350 Gary, so a good price for what you get and much better value than my Horus X12S! Do Jumper make a 4 in 1 Lite as well as their standard size module? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tim Ballinger said: Bob, have they said they will release Ethos for the X10 or is that an assumption? Tim At least one beta tester on RCGroups has already loaded the X10 version of Ethos, a future version for the X12S is also a possibility. Eventually... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Ballinger Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Hopefully the X 10 ETHOS will be ok on the ACCST protocol (can’t see why it shouldn’t ). I may be hoping for too much but that should also mean model memory compatibility albeit perhaps just for FrOS . Tim Edited March 6, 2021 by Tim Ballinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 It does look a nice piece of kit but I can't see my replacing my Horus X10 anytime soon. It does all, and more than I want or need. Mind you, I thought I'd never need another radio when I bought my Multiplex 3030 and then along came 2.4gHz. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Tim Ballinger said: Hopefully the X 10 ETHOS will be ok on the ACCST protocol (can’t see why it shouldn’t ). I may be hoping for too much but that should also mean model memory compatibility albeit perhaps just for FrOS. ACCST on the X10 is guaranteed (D16 is also there on the X20), but the latter is very unlikely. Frsky effectively orphaned FrOS when they made the decision to develop Ethos, and because next to no-one is using it there is no real value in them developing a migration method. I think a pathway from OpenTX would be far more important, but that is only a tad more likely. It is more likely to be developed by the open source community than Frsky IMO. 5 hours ago, Bob Cotsford said: At least one beta tester on RCGroups has already loaded the X10 version of Ethos, a future version for the X12S is also a possibility. Eventually... Again, I would say unlikely. This TX and the rumoured X24 will replace the X10 and X12 respectively, and given the X12 didn’t sell that well I doubt they will choose to bother. It is possible to give the X12 ACCESS comparability using the X10 ISRM conversion, but it’s an unofficial hack. If Frsky were planning to do more with the X12 they would have done it when ACCESS first emerged, but for commercial reasons they’d much rather you bought a new TX... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Matt, I was referring to an Ethos firmware port to download for installation in current X12Ss rather than a new release of X12S transmitters with Ethos (ethOS?) factory installed. I am just going by what Jetflier on RCG and the other beta testers have said while posting within the terms of their NDAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 12 hours ago, Bob Cotsford said: Matt, I was referring to an Ethos firmware port to download for installation in current X12Ss rather than a new release of X12S transmitters with Ethos (ethOS?) factory installed. I am just going by what Jetflier on RCG and the other beta testers have said while posting within the terms of their NDAs. Yeah, I’ve seen some of those posts but I remain sceptical. Why would they want to give more life to the X12 with an Ethos port when it is mothballed in production terms? Besides, Frsky have a record of promising to update older kit then going back on their word. Prime example there would be D8 in 2015 - they promised to do an EU compliant version of the firmware to extend the life of existing kit “if there was enough demand for it”, but despite thousands of requests they quietly forgot so they could sell more of the then new X series D16 RXs. I seem to remember they later claimed it was impossible for some technical reason, but we know that is untrue as Mike B’s efforts have proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Matt, as I originally said - "a possibility"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I suspect that you are right @MattyB, history has a tendency to repeat itself! I’m still in the mindset of it would be a nice bit of kit to own but maybe next year. In the meantime I think I’ll sell the X12S as it doesn’t get used (X10S and X9D are in regular use) and keep an eye on how things progress with the X20. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 ETHOS up and running on here on an ISRM updated X10, all good. I've seen a few niggles from others, but plenty of support and action on bugs through the github. Looking forward to the X12S version which is pretty close to release by all accounts now. X20S pre-order placed too ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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