Dave Smith Models

[kc]

Dalesman were a supplier of foam wings - adverts at the back of RCME in the 1980's showed wings for all popular designs at good prices.    Look for the small panel size adverts in an RCME of that era.

 

[Andy Stephenson]

I recently built a Duplistar from OZ plans I had reduced by a local print shop down to 63" span from 68". Wingtip shape modified. The canopy I used was one from a kit Acrowot and the cowl was vac-formed from a mould I took from a DSM Joker cowl then glassed. The wings and decking were foam cut and sheeted with balsa. The whole airframe was glassed and painted. The engine is now an OS61RFP with pipe.

[kc]

Jeffrey, I have an unstarted Smart Move  40 kit  which I might be tempted to sell.  Send me a PM.

[Bruce Collinson]

Jeff,

 

Try the York model clubs to see if anyone can get a handle on Marvic?   Some of the more mature members of NLMFC have very long memories of things like this, even if they can no longer remember who they are (St. Michael is a common mistake) and my bet would be that if any of the previous "proprietors" of any of the participants of the '80s were still traceable, they'd be chuffed to bits that someone wants to revive a concept which they thought had disappeared for good.   They don't really have any skin in the game after all.

 

I'd do it but I am supposed to be working, plus there's an Anderson's Rocket waiting for spray too.

 

Andy S, gorgeous model.   Funny how often Acrowot canopies just seem to fit, I think I have two in similar use.   i envy the cowl, and am just wondering whether it would fit my small Excelsior and Saito 100.   Any chance of three basic dimensions with a view to renting the plug off you?

 

Bruce

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

16 minutes ago, Bruce Collinson said:

Bill Manley/Bill Kits has done Excelsior wings for a couple of us recently and therefore has the patterns.   As several of us are clearly fans of these models (they all seem to fly well) and JC's contact NJR Models appears to have an appetite to re-kit them, I'm asking myself:

1)    Should the likes of Bill Manley be asked for info on the previous kitters, who probably outsourced foam wing production

2)    If the issue is one of registered design rights, if they are registered this ought to be in the public domain and they automatically expire, I think after 25 yrs and if unregistered then sooner (I'm not a real patents attorney though) but when did anyone hear of the boy-band type litigation where a model aeroplane is concerned?   Or, get the Chinese to make them because they do not seem to be bound by arcane ideals like copyright and counterfeit laws.   I'd rather they were made here or in the Czech Republic or Germany, France even, albeit at a higher price.

 

I fear this is crossing with Jeff's replies as I was interrupted in mid-flow.

 

BTC

Hi Bruce

Not crossing with my replies at all. Could use all the info I can find.

Good thought about BillKits. might give him a call. If nothing else, if Nick does decide to go ahead he will have to get his foam wings made somewhere, why not Bill.

As regards rights to the designs. You're probably right that these would have lapsed, but I think Nick is right to try to find out who has those.

Not only is it the gentlemanly way to conduct business (we're not chinese after all) but also to produce kits he would need the original drawings, since the DSM products were not supplied with plans.

The search goes on

Jeff

[kc]

Well Bruce may not have heard of copyright court cases for model aircraft,  but in the 1980's or 1990's all the talk at one of the shows was of the copyright case where one model aircraft designer sued and even offered to settle for a reasonable amount 'at the court steps' which was refused.  The offender apparently lost the case and subsequently lost his house to pay for the matter!   It can happen!

[Andy Stephenson]

38 minutes ago, Bruce Collinson said:

...

 

Andy S, gorgeous model.   Funny how often Acrowot canopies just seem to fit, I think I have two in similar use.   i envy the cowl, and am just wondering whether it would fit my small Excelsior and Saito 100.   Any chance of three basic dimensions with a view to renting the plug off you?

 

Bruce

Bruce,

 

I originally made a silicone rubber internal mould of the original DSM cowl which I took several glass epoxy lay-ups from, some worked better than others. I used the best one to refurbish my DSM Joker but there are others which could be made good by a bit of fettling. You are welcome to the best of the cast-offs. I'll check the dimensions and let you know.

The canopy was made by removing it from the model as originally built and making a vac-form plug from it. I also made a plaster plug of the Acrowot canopy from which I have successfully taken mouldings.

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Andy Stephenson

[Andy Stephenson]

Bruce,

At the open end the height is 140 and the width is 90. The maximum trimmed length is 140 and it suits a 57 diameter spinner. Dims in mms. There are two in white epoxy and two in plain epoxy.

[Andy Stephenson]

I just realised the cowl I made for the Duplistar was smaller and from a different mould so it wouldn't fit round a Saito 100, a Joker one would be more suitable.

[John Lee]

1 hour ago, kc said:

Dalesman were a supplier of foam wings - adverts at the back of RCME in the 1980's showed wings for all popular designs at good prices.    Look for the small panel size adverts in an RCME of that era.

 

 

[Andy Stephenson]

Dalesman also offered a canopy for the Clipper III which was noted on the plan but is obviously long gone by now so I painted the canopy on mine.

 

[David Foley]

Duplistar was drawn up by 2 members of the GBRCAA( no idea who) Dalesman  did very good work at the time and was the go too

guy for wings. Model was never avaliable from DSM

[Nigel R]

2 hours ago, Andy Stephenson said:

I recently built a Duplistar from OZ plans I had reduced by a local print shop down to 63" span from 68". Wingtip shape modified. The canopy I used was one from a kit Acrowot and the cowl was vac-formed from a mould I took from a DSM Joker cowl then glassed. The wings and decking were foam cut and sheeted with balsa. The whole airframe was glassed and painted. The engine is now an OS61RFP with pipe.

 

That's very nice.

 

Why the reduction? must go like, well, quickly, with a piped RF.

[Andy Stephenson]

Nigel,

My Joker is 68" span and really needs a bigger engine than a 60, it currently has an piped Irvine 72 which is adequate so I opted for a slightly smaller size on the Duplistar due to the engine I had earmarked for it. May be I just build heavy.

[Nigel R]

Fair enough. The smaller size puts it on a par with the early 80s designs in terms of wing span/ area, I would guess.

[Bruce Collinson]

Cheers Andy, I'll measure mine after work/tea etc.

 

Judging by the old STD code on the Dalesman ad (remember when that related to telephony and not promiscuity?) that ad is very old so whilst Saltaire is just over the County Line from here I think there's no point door knocking on spec.

 

KC's anecdote is apposite, although my point was that any legal protection is likely to have lapsed purely by passage of time so that such Pyrrhic suits are very unlikely and for any classicists reading this, it will have been Pyrrhic because one very rarely recovers all one's costs in litigation.

 

BTC

[Stuart Z]

All this exchange has motivated me to get my Joker 40 onto a clear bench.  Looks straightforward as fuselage already done.

 

Thinking OS55 with a pipe.  Yet to assess fit and manifold position etc, etc, etc.  At least now in the era of 2.4ghz I won’t be shot down like my last Joker ?

 

S

[Masher]

Blimey that sounds OTT! I have 55ax in my Curare and DSM Excelsior 1500 and both go like a scolded cat

[Stuart Z]

I had an OS 61RF and pipe on my Calypso by Mod Tech and that was only about 3” extra span.  So maybe similar.  Certainly had serious vertical performance 
 

Any thoughts on that?

 

S

[Nigel R]

I now can't wait to get cracking on a DSM style classic pattern build... Rocket, Challenger, Calypso, trouble deciding... Challenger might be the current favourite I think, brilliant sleek fuselage shape.

 

 

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Nigel, just a thought.

If you decide on the Rocket I have the plan over here. Bought it years ago, but I'll never get round to building one.

You're very welcome to it if it helps.

Mind you, if you really want to scare the horses, I can also do a plan for the Saxon by Dave Rumball.

This ones 2 mtr span for 1.40 engines, but uses built up wings and tail, not foam. Lot of building in it, but would be quite a beast when done.

Let me know

Jeff

[Bruce Collinson]

I risk repetition but a reminder for Racketeers, I fly with Terry Anderson and the last batch (mine was sprayed earlier today) had minor tweaks.   All ours are 4 stroke for site noise reasons.   Mainly Saito 100s in this design.

 

BTC

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Bruce

I hope you mean Rocketeers. Racketeers are something entirely different ?

Jeff

[David Davis]

I plan to power my DSM Aerostar with an OS 61SF. I usually use Hitec HS11s in sports models. Will they be adequate for this model or would you recommend something stronger?

[Stuart Z]

Hi David

 

I only used standard servos in my Joker and Calypso way back when.

 

I suspect better servos will give better response, mine seemed fine at the time.

 

S