Lamination Film

[Erfolg]

Thanks for the compliment Ron, although very much is the result of the process, rather than my technique.

 

It is perhaps of interest to some, although as a power flyer, the laminate and tissue method uses very much less dope than dope and tissue method, although the difference in weight is not a problem. For FF modelers I can see a lot of virtue.

• Reduced covering weight
• Very much tougher than tissue only
• Probably much easier (certainly with my clumsy, rough hands and technique).

I am now tissuing the balsa sheeted wing, which I am finding much harder and uses much, much, more dope. Although my main concern is toughing up the balsa.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Erfolg

[Erfolg]

I have now started the painting phase.

 

The finish I have obtained is just about adequate for my standards. It could be much better if done by some one else with skill.

 

I used a bog standard Antique White, rather than titanium white, as it is closer to the WW1 period pigments. I used a pot of "tester". These pigments are not very finely ground, so using an artist or modellers type paint would produce a much smoother surface. The other aspect, if it were FF duration type, minimum weight machine I would go for artists ink such as F&W.

 

With more practice and a better understanding on the limitations of the film, the rounded plan items would be better. I end up with a witness of the overlap, it can be avoided. It is much the same with tissue, although in some cases necessary. The tissue provides torsional strength etc.

 

All in all it works as a system for me, better than a film finish for a WW1 aircraft. Significantly lighter than the woven type heat shrinks.

[Engine Doctor]

Hi Erflog. Your covering and painting is looking excellent 👍

Below  is a pic of my Elf Bipe fuz covered in the matt finish Laminating film .  Looks very similar to the clear film  with added tissue . It is slightly more troublesome to apply to start with but with a bit of practice and getting to know the material is just like applying ordinary film but uses higher temperature to shrink and finish. I find it similar to applying Light-span and needs to be put on as wrinkle free in the tacking stage as shrinkage is lower than normal covering materials. Compound curves are easily covered using a hot air gun but a decent amount of overlap needs to be left to get a grip on while stretching over curves. The main fuz is 75 micron film and the removable top of the cowling is 38 micron. Totally fuel proof  if using IC 

[Erfolg]

On reflection, the surface finish is probably no worse than woven heat shrink, or nylon. Just at the scale of most models the texture would appear to be smooth, rather than have any look, or feel of a texture.

 

I agree with you on the comments. As to using matt finish, probably not, as I have so much of the transparent, to probably last my remaining life time. Your model does look good.

 

I feel that laminating film is probably the way forward for our hobby, as being effective, readily available at an affordable (is that) low cost.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Erfolg

[Engine Doctor]

My Elf Bipe now fully covered in matt lamination film and ready for painting etc.

 I have already done most of the painting but not taken any pics as its been raining and space in my workshop is a bit limited as too much stuff on the go . Pics of that soon .

[Outrunner]

Very nice ED. I'm a big fan of laminating film but so far I've only tissue covered over film, I'm interested how you get on with painting over it.

 

[Engine Doctor]

Hi Outrunner. The painting has gone very well . Ive tried various paints on test peices and it adheres like you know what  to a blanket . Pics to follow.

[Basil]

15 hours ago, Engine Doctor said:

Hi Outrunner. The painting has gone very well . Ive tried various paints on test peices and it adheres like you know what  to a blanket . Pics to follow.

What paints and methods(Spray , brush) have you tried ?. Would be really interested. I have used 'Guild' matt ( solvent bound)  looks good , been on a year.(electric).

Bas

[Engine Doctor]

 Hi Basil TBH I have only tried brushing the Guild Chroma gloss at present on models due to not wanting overspray on everything in the workshop. That's the problem with enamel paints , the overspray is usually still wet enough to stick when it lands and is sometime a so an so to get off . 

The test pieces have in the past  been both  sprayed and brushed but mostly brushed. I used artist acrylic, humbrol matt and gloss, solarlac and some two pack. All resist a tough fingernail and masking tape test very well. The test piece that's been in the greenhouse for a couple of years is still tight and shows no sign of uv damage . The paint on one corner ( sprayed red solarlac) however is showing signs of uv degrading an is flaking slightly. But what model would be subjected to that sort of abuse ?

 

A word of  caution re the matt finish on the lamination film. On my Elf Bipe I accidentally smudged some epoxy on the covering and never noticed it until it was days old and properly cured. I tried various solvents to remove it inc cellulose thinner, white spirit and some cyano remover liquid. Nothing touched the epoxy but after a lot of rubbing the matt finish started to dissappear.  A small spot of clear still with a tiny dob of epoxy now stands out where the epoxy was hardly noticeable!  Now hidden with a painted trim stripe.

For masking the lam film I use fine line tape. It sticks very well and leaves a crisp line when removed . For best results remove masking while paint is still wet or before it's cured.

[Basil]

Thanks for the info. With the chroma paints they specify when you can apply a second coat, seems the cure time is important.When  using them do you have to wait some specific time to apply masking tape , will it pull off the paint film if applied to soon. Whats your experience. I to use brush because of the overspray probs.

Has anybody applied the chroma gloss and followed with an aqueous based product, like acrylics, namely matt/eggshell  ?. I have used the water based varnishes for carpentry products, looks OK. 

Bas

[Basil]

Sorry, I forgot to ask a about acrylic paints .  I was wondering about those sold at B&Q, seen references to these products on here.  Ant body else tried water based, and from where etc?.

Bas

 

[Simon Chaddock]

Not in the same league of scale finishes but I have uses Scola acrylic water based quite successfully and just brushed on.

They have quite a range of colours.

.

The big advantage for me is they are foam safe!

[Engine Doctor]

19 hours ago, Basil said:

Thanks for the info. With the chroma paints they specify when you can apply a second coat, seems the cure time is important.When  using them do you have to wait some specific time to apply masking tape , will it pull off the paint film if applied to soon. Whats your experience. I to use brush because of the overspray probs.

Has anybody applied the chroma gloss and followed with an aqueous based product, like acrylics, namely matt/eggshell  ?. I have used the water based varnishes for carpentry products, looks OK. 

Bas

Hi Bas for masking I have used fine line tape . Its quite a high tack tape but gives crisp lines. Light blue gloss left on for about a week then tape applied. Without thinking i pulled it off at almost 90 deg angle and a couple of tiny spots of the light blue lifted. Later i pulled off tape at about 140 deg angle and off to side . No paint lifted. It may have been that on that panel i didnt use any panel wipe to remove any grease from handling it while covering. Lift tape while paint is still soft or wet. This avoids a hard or jagged  edge.

I havent tried water based over the Chroma gloss but suspect it will need flatting off as its a very shiny and slippery finish.

[Engine Doctor]

I have started to paint the Elf. Paint is Light blue Chroma gloss and Sea blue Polykote .

I have now put some more stripes on the wings but no pics as yet. 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Engine Doctor

[Ron Gray]

Very nice ED.

[Basil]

Very nice, like the blue. Thanks for your observations.

Bas

[Basil]

Ron, being as you initiated the purchase of the laminating film  !!!!. Have you anything to say about the painting of the film?

Bas

 

[Ron Gray]

Basil, I must say that ED is spot on with his tips on painting. The key (no pun intended) is to make sure that the lam film is keyed and clean in order for paint to adhere. Most issues people have with flaking paint is down to these 2 steps not being followed! If applying masking tape to a painted surface then allow plenty of time before applying low tack tape, depending on the time of year / temperature this maybe anything between 2 and 10 days but patience is your friend.

Most of my painting has been based on cheap automotive primer rubbed down before applying top coats of ‘graffiti’ paints although I’ve also used acrylic paints via my airbrush. On I/C models I fuel proof with Clearcoat but only after the underlying paint has thoroughly dried (days!).

[Basil]

Ron, sorry; whats 'Graffiti paint'. If you remember its a matt finish already, no flatting required, just a clean. Any tips on wipes etc.Many thanks.

Bas

 

[Ron Gray]

Despite it being a Matt finish I still run over it with very fine sandpaper and then clean with isopropyl.

 

The graffiti paint is this stuff Paint and I first used it on my LA-7

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Ron Gray

[David Hazell 1]

That's a beaut!

[David Hazell 1]

2 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Despite it being a Matt finish I still run over it with very fine sandpaper and then clean with isopropyl.

 

Do you dilute the isopropyl alcohol in water? I've read somewhere else that it's still effective at 10%, but I guess it wouldn't evaporate so readily.

 

[Ron Gray]

I use it neat. 

[David Hazell 1]

27 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

I use it neat. 

 

"Spared no expense!" (Richard Attenborough in Jurassic Park) !!!

[Engine Doctor]

Yes as Ron says use isopropyl neat or buy some proper panel wipe spirit. The diluted iso is ok for diy stuff but for our use or car painting can leave damp patches that take too long to dry completely.Then a quick wipe over with a tack rag and your ready to go.