aidan mcatamney Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 This was my first taste of the sky Toto learning to fly in the summer of 1986. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beeney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hi Toto, Very briefly, I've just been reading some of the later posts of this thread, I've by no means read it all I'm afraid, but with regard to the failing Overlander ESCs can I respectfully ask if they are all the same version, i.e. same current supply and price or have you used a variety of types and sizes? Also in your post at 16:45 on Saturday where you mention the ESC failing in the Domino and then when you plugged in a NICD???? battery everything worked, did this also include the throttle/motor as well do you remember? An equally brief answer will be fine. Many thanks. PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Hi Peter, they were all the same kind and rating of 60amp Overlander. I would be hesitant to blame the ESC's themselves as it may not be the case so please use my experiences with caution. I am about to do a more thorough check on the set up as although the ESC, battery, motor and servos were all seemingly matched for compatibility, there could be ( as suggested earlier on this thread ) other issues. Maybe a bad servo lead connection or something that creates a high resistance somewhere. Do jot go righting off overlander ESC's. I will report whatever I find on this thread as I find it and hopefully this will negate any issue with overlander. I don't like bashing manufacturers or retailers but am happy to highlight issues if and when proven. When I plugged in the nicd ..... all control surfaces and the motor worked. Let me go back and repeat this just to confirm and be absolutely sure of what I am saying. .... beginning to doubt myself now. It may be tomorrow or so before I get to do this but hopefully sooner. Many thanks Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 @totoare you saying you plugged a rx Nimh pack into the receiver Batt port with the ESC connected to the receiver and if so, how often have you done this? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Hi early bird, I'd need to check if I had the esc still plugged in. I'll see if my mentor can remember. I'll be back Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beeney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Toto, Thanks for your prompt answer and I have to say straight away that I can't give you an absolutely definitive answer without having a quick look at the bits and pieces but if in fact your Domino motor does run when you connect the receiver battery I would have to say this points inexorably to the voltage regulator a.k.a. the BEC. This regulator supplies a steady five volts to some components on the ESC which would seriously object to being connected to the flight pack voltage. It also provides the supply to the receiver so if this suddenly ceases to function for some reason when you connect the 5V battery that simply replaces the regulator supply and back feeds the said components. For the moment establish beyond doubt the motor run, or not run, condition and we'll take it on from there….. I'm sure you can't do any harm here but as usual please consider the prop turning without warning and also I'd have to say I'd find it very difficult to find any other sort of explanation external to the ESC that might cause this situation. Take it easy. PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Hi, Just checked. We unplugged the esc and plugged the battery into the battery port and the various surfaces moved. We did not try the motor. Apologies for that ..... I wanted to double check to be sure. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 ISTR back in the mists of time that Toto was having an issue whereby his motor was actually running, just off a NiMh receiver pack, without the main flight battery being connected at all. Not sure if it was this thread, or this model, but I believe that is what he described at the time. I could be wring, but it rings a distant bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: ISTR back in the mists of time that Toto was having an issue whereby his motor was actually running, just off a NiMh receiver pack, without the main flight battery being connected at all. Not sure if it was this thread, or this model, but I believe that is what he described at the time. I could be wring, but it rings a distant bell. Yes, first electric model IDB. Not sure of the details now but I thought it was the first ESC failure. @totoare you saying the ESC was unplugged from the receiver before the NiMh was connected to the receiver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just read my next assembly (the sequel) Domino. There are many posts saying do not use a separate rx battery but if you wish to then disconnect the red wire from the ESC plug. I assume that if the red wire is not disconnected then power from the RX Nimh will damage the ESC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beeney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Toto, If you would rather not check this with the ESC plugged into the receiver have you got some other means of checking the voltage output on the throttle lead from the ESC? Voltmeter perhaps if you have one. From your description of the fault it does seem difficult to consider it as anything else other than that the regulator has gone open circuit for whatever reason. I'd of thought that for this to happen just once is bordering on virtually unprecedented, the frequency at which it appears to be happening to you is pretty well right off the clock… If it does so happen that the regulator has gone open circuit then it may be well worth considering that the others have also done the same….. which is quite remarkable but I have to say very difficult to see that it's maybe anything that you are doing incorrectly either. I think you are getting close to cracking this! PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 It might also be that these ESC's are not entirely uselss, if it's only the BEC circuit that has gone then they might still be able to be used as an ESC with a bettery providing the power, just disconect the red lead from the ESC to the receiver, plug a battery into the RX and give the motor a test to see if it runs. May then not be a total lost cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 I think I need to wait until I am back in the shed which will be tomorrow night at the earliest. I shall have to also digest the above posts to get my head around them as well. It takes a little time for me to sync with what's being suggested. Apologies for that. I'll clear enough space for the Domino to go back on the stand then start looking at the various suggestions. I shall do it as I post and with photos. Thanks for all your assistance and participation in trying to resolve this. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said: It might also be that these ESC's are not entirely uselss, if it's only the BEC circuit that has gone then they might still be able to be used as an ESC with a bettery providing the power, just disconect the red lead from the ESC to the receiver, plug a battery into the RX and give the motor a test to see if it runs. May then not be a total lost cause. Toto posted a photo of one showing blown output fets, if I remember rightly. That one, at least, would be complete toast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beeney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hi Philip, With total respect but it may be worth sounding a tiny note of caution here. The BEC is a regulator and if that has rather popped its clogs then I’d consider that the whole ESC is in something of a major malfunction too, it’s going to be a bit inert to say the very least. However, if the red wire is left in place and still connected then plugging a battery in will provide the necessary 5 volts to power the radio and ESC for more sweet and harmonious loops and rolls…. Having said that I think my strong preference though would certainly be to return it to the supplier and get his angle on it…and hopefully some sort of recompense as well… Although this arrangement might work for a long time and indeed never give any problems I feel that because this is not how it’s designed to work I would not have sufficient faith in this. Not something I’ll be doing anytime soon, at least in the normal run of events anyway. Cheers PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Nigel R said: Toto posted a photo of one showing blown output fets, if I remember rightly. That one, at least, would be complete toast. I agree which is why I said "if it's only the BEC circuit that has gone then they might still be able to be used as an ESC" 21 minutes ago, Peter Beeney said: With total respect but it may be worth sounding a tiny note of caution here. The BEC is a regulator and if that has rather popped its clogs then I’d consider that the whole ESC is in something of a major malfunction too, it’s going to be a bit inert to say the very least. If it's only the BEC that has blown I wouldn't write off the rest because ther are entirely disconnected circuits, it might well be inert (blown) but I'd still disconect the red wire, it either doesn't need it or definitely shouldn't have it. I agree, if I had faith in my equipment and instalation I would return it straightaway, this is only a suggested alternative to throwing it in the bin. Edited February 20 by Philip Lewis 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beeney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Philip, My apologies, I guess I was a bit too vague there. This is only my opinion of course but I would consider that if the regulator (BEC) is blown then there is no power to some of the components and therefore the ESC is unable to function at all. Neither can the radio because there is no power supply there as well. I very much suspect it would've failed open circuit, if it failed short-circuit it would then most likely destroy itself fairly quickly and then become open circuit anyway, leaving the pos and neg wires in place between the rx and ESC provides the complete circuit for the battery connected to the rx to then provide the 5 volts for the necessary components on the ESA. Admittedly the supply is now a bit back to front but that doesn't make any difference at all. I think I can say with some certainty though that disconnecting the red wire will indeed definitely prevent this cobbled up arrangement from working at all. Sincerely hope this makes better sense…. PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Peter Beeney said: This is only my opinion of course but I would consider that if the regulator (BEC) is blown then there is no power to some of the components and therefore the ESC is unable to function at all. Neither can the radio because there is no power supply there as well. Nope, on your first point the other components (FET's, control chip Etc) may well get power from the main (motor power) battery, RX gets it's power from the battery connected to the RX exactly the same as when you use an ESC with a BEC but disconnect the red lead from it (but it still works) to stop it powering the RX and servo's. All I'm saying is don't throw it in the bin because it might work in the same way as an opto ESC i.e. needing a separate RX power supply. I think it's worth a try before binning it, that's all I'm trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 What's weird is that these escs don't seem to be failing in flight IIRC, toto flies, lands, unplugs..... then on plugging in thd next battery - nothing, dead esc....... Correct ms if I am wrong. I often am! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Exactly correct Grumpy. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, toto said: Exactly correct Grumpy. Toto When do you plug the NiMh into the rx Toto. Doing this will damage the ESC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Early bird, The ESC was disconnected when I plugged the NiMh battery into the receiver. I double checked this with my mentor to confirm the steps taken. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Bradly Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said: What's weird is that these escs don't seem to be failing in flight IIRC, toto flies, lands, unplugs..... then on plugging in thd next battery - nothing, dead esc....... Correct ms if I am wrong. I often am! During the above process, are you unplugging the esc's "servo" plug from the Rx? And then is there the remotest chance when you plug the esc "servo" back into the rx, it's going in upside down? (Whence the Rx will have no power, but the esc will be undamaged). Because if the process that GG posted here is all that is truthfully happening (which is by definition absolutely normal) and the result is 4(?) esc's have suffered damage because of this process, then you are the only person in the history of RC flying that this has happened to. Have you given one of the failed esc's to a third party to take home and check, remote from the rest of your setup? If not, please consider this. Edited February 21 by Dale Bradly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said: I agree which is why I said "if it's only the BEC circuit that has gone then they might still be able to be used as an ESC" Tough call to make if sitting at the other end of the country on the other end of a PC. If parts of the board have exploded, it's fit only for the bin. If others from the same batch have failed, trust in them will rightly be zero. There is no way any of us can diagnose the exact extent of circuit damage in the ESC over this forum. Which means the sensible advice is, don't use them. Anyway, that's my take, it's not worth trying to reuse a failed single component, it seems to fail the "is it safe to fly?" question to my mind. 10 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said: I agree, if I had faith in my equipment and instalation I would return it straightaway, this is only a suggested alternative to throwing it in the bin. However they would need to be totally unmodified - I seem to recall toto changed the main connectors on these ESCs. 2 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said: What's weird is that these escs don't seem to be failing in flight IIRC, toto flies, lands, unplugs..... then on plugging in thd next battery - nothing, dead esc....... My money is on static damage to components. A normal manifestation of static damage is a delayed failure, under regular use. Usually this is caused by inadequate handling procedures, i.e. bare hands without static protection. Sometimes (e.g.) dodgy soldering iron or other tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 32 minutes ago, Dale Bradly said: During the above process, are you unplugging the esc's "servo" plug from the Rx? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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