All the gear & no idea

[Mr Fro]

Hello everyone.

 

My late father-in-law was an RC nut. He had everything; cars, boats, helicopters & planes and it's fallen to me to sort everything out.

 

The boats have all gone, as have most of the cars. Now I'm left with a bunch of planes - probably half a dozen or so, all unflown, with the smallest being a Cessna 182 Skylane and the biggest... well it's bigger than me and I'm not small!

 

I've found that due to the UK registration laws that there is only a tiny market for RC aircraft so the chance of selling them is small. Therefore I'm semi tempted to have a bash at it myself.

 

My only slight issue is that most of the models are still in their packaging to some extent & although I've had a year long crash course in building cars & boats, I've not yet tackled an aeroplane aside from poking some wings on a fuselage or two.

 

If you'll indulge me, I'd quite like to ask some probably stupid questions - "where does this pokey bit go?" type of thing and in exchange you might enjoy some of my cock-ups along the way.

 

Who knows, it could be a laugh, a disaster or I might just have the plane of your dreams or parts you need sitting in my garage. Anyway, it'll be an adventure!

 

Cheers,

Fro

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Hi and welcome to the forum.  I’m sure you’ll get plenty of answers to your questions here. 
 

Have a look at this recent reply to another potential new model flyer - there’s some great advice. 
 

It’s a great hobby - and most of us find the club atmosphere and readily available help and advice adds massively to the learning experience. 

[Simon Chaddock]

Mr fro

It will greatly help if you can get good at taking and loading photos onto this site. A picture tends to be equivalent to 1000 words and it is quite possible someone may have already have one or more of your planes so will be able to give specific advice.

 

    

[Mr Fro]

Thanks guys!

 

@Martin Harris - Moderator - I had a look at that post before I signed up and I've been looking at local flying clubs as a result. No chance I'm giving up the bikes though even if a couple of them are ad-hoc model stands at the moment!

 

@Simon Chaddock - I'm lucky insofar as the old boy kept a couple of box files with the manuals in them. The plane manuals are fairly rubbish compared to those of the cars mind you, mostly very zoomed in pictures of something unidentifiable with the caption "Now stick the dooby-flange to the fluggel-grommet". Oh, and they're mostly in German which is a bit of a hurdle.

[paul devereux]

25 minutes ago, Mr Fro said:

 

@Simon Chaddock - I'm lucky insofar as the old boy kept a couple of box files with the manuals in them. The plane manuals are fairly rubbish compared to those of the cars mind you, mostly very zoomed in pictures of something unidentifiable with the caption "Now stick the dooby-flange to the fluggel-grommet". Oh, and they're mostly in German which is a bit of a hurdle.

I agree they sometimes presuppose some background knowledge, eg the instructions might say:"check the COG (or CoG, or balance point, or sometimes a BMW symbol) is 50mm from the leading edge" without explaining the significance - and then you find a leaflet in the box saying, the instructions in the manual are wrong, it should be 70mm back... That's when it is handy to ask questions here.

Edited April 9, 2023 by paul devereux

[Mr Fro]

Just now, paul devereux said:

I agree they sometimes presuppose some background knowledge, eg the instructions might say:"check the COG (or CoG, or balance point, or sometimes a BMW symbol) is 50mm from the leading edge" without explaining the significance - and then you find a leaflet in the box saying, the instructions in the manual are wrong, it should be 70mm back... That's when it is handy to ask questions here.

Very true!

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

As you are a Motorbike follower, models engines are like British bikes, don't forget that they can also leak.😅

[David Davis 2]

Welcome to the forum and and to the hobby Mr Fro. I am not a great pilot but I have been flying r/c model aircraft since 1988 and I've been a club-level instructor since 1998. I would echo what previous respondents have said and urge you to join a club. There you will (probably) be able to fly the club's trainers under the tutelage of an instructor with two transmitters linked by a cable or wirelessly. That way when you make a horlicks of things he will be able to retake control and prevent the trainer from crashing. You'll also meet fellow enthusiasts who will be able to help you to build or assemble your late father-in-law's models.

 

From time to time we get posts from beginners who are determined to fly without joining a club. Sometimes we hear that they have crashed their models on the first flight. Those of us with some experience could have predicted that. Sometimes they find someone to help them, more often we never hear from them again. I'm not trying to preach but flying an r/c model aircraft is not as easy as it looks and it would be a shame to damage your large and doubtless very expensive Cessna on its first flight. Scale model aircraft are far less robust compared with models specifically designed as trainers. The Cessna might just make a good second model once you can take off, fly and land a trainer repeatedly without damaging it but I would advise getting some time on an intermediate sort of model like a Stick or WOT 4.

 

I'm sure we'd all be interested in looking at the models you have and advising on their suitability for a beginner and finally, don't give up on selling the kits. If your Cessna is the Seagull 152 brand new undamaged and in its box, I'd give you £150 for it sight unseen!

 

 

[Cuban8]

10 hours ago, Mr Fro said:

Hello everyone.

 

I've found that due to the UK registration laws that there is only a tiny market for RC aircraft so the chance of selling them is small. Therefore I'm semi tempted to have a bash at it myself.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Fro

An incorrect assumption, I'm afraid, Fro. UK registration laws as they apply to hobbyists are a pointless waste of time, and have had little or no effect on the way we operate, other than being an inconvenience because of extra admin and a few quids' cost.

The market for aeromodelling goods both new and used is still strong, although nothing like it was a few decades ago - the way the market operates and the profile of its customers has indeed changed, as it has for many other sectors, so it's a matter of getting to know how to use it. Quality stuff will always sell at a good price.

Good luck.

[Mr Fro]

2 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

An incorrect assumption, I'm afraid, Fro. UK registration laws as they apply to hobbyists are a pointless waste of time, and have had little or no effect on the way we operate, other than being an inconvenience because of extra admin and a few quids' cost.

The market for aeromodelling goods both new and used is still strong, although nothing like it was a few decades ago - the way the market operates and the profile of its customers has indeed changed, as it has for many other sectors, so it's a matter of getting to know how to use it. Quality stuff will always sell at a good price.

Good luck.

That's interesting, thanks.

 

I got that impression from my local model shop the other day when I popped in for some fuel. The guy said I was a fool for buying fuel to test the engines as the fuel itself was worth more due to the market bottoming out.

[J D 8]

              Engine value depends a lot on what make, Japanese stuff like OS, Saito Enya keep a good value along with some British and European like Laser, Irvine, Webra.  Vintage British diesels always make good money, have a look on Ebay.  Old Chinese stuff not so much and as for old Russian MDS chuck em straight in the bin. 

[David Davis 2]

8 minutes ago, Mr Fro said:

That's interesting, thanks.

 

I got that impression from my local model shop the other day when I popped in for some fuel. The guy said I was a fool for buying fuel to test the engines as the fuel itself was worth more due to the market bottoming out.

 

What has happened over the last twenty years is that more and more modellers are powering small-medium sized models with electric motors and that large models are being powered by Chinese petrol two-strokes  and as a result the demand for glow plug engines, especially two strokes has reduced considerably. So if you're looking to sell two-stroke engines you won't get much for them. Indeed there was a man selling several buckets full of two -stroke engines at the National Championships some years ago, £10 each. Everything from miniature Coxes to 20cc Super Tigres. £10 each. Take your pick! Four stroke glow engines command a higher price.

 

That said, glow engines are still eminently useable. When fitted to a trainer you can fly around for for twenty minutes or more, land the model, refuel and go again. With an electric powered model you'll probably get a maximum of eight to ten minutes flight time, may be not even that, then you'll need to land. Realistically you'd need to take two or three LiPos to the flying field and maybe a charger as well.

 

I use a Thunder Tiger 46 two stroke in a Seagull Boomerang as an advanced trainer for my beginners. I was given the engine for free minus its carburetter. I found an OS carburetter amongst my spares, fitted it and it works perfectly.

[Mr Fro]

3 hours ago, David Davis 2 said:

 

What has happened over the last twenty years is that more and more modellers are powering small-medium sized models with electric motors and that large models are being powered by Chinese petrol two-strokes  and as a result the demand for glow plug engines, especially two strokes has reduced considerably. So if you're looking to sell two-stroke engines you won't get much for them. Indeed there was a man selling several buckets full of two -stroke engines at the National Championships some years ago, £10 each. Everything from miniature Coxes to 20cc Super Tigres. £10 each. Take your pick! Four stroke glow engines command a higher price.

 

That said, glow engines are still eminently useable. When fitted to a trainer you can fly around for for twenty minutes or more, land the model, refuel and go again. With an electric powered model you'll probably get a maximum of eight to ten minutes flight time, may be not even that, then you'll need to land. Realistically you'd need to take two or three LiPos to the flying field and maybe a charger as well.

 

I use a Thunder Tiger 46 two stroke in a Seagull Boomerang as an advanced trainer for my beginners. I was given the engine for free minus its carburetter. I found an OS carburetter amongst my spares, fitted it and it works perfectly.

Having had a glow engined rc car back in the day I appreciate that they are quite highly strung compared to petrol engines (which all the cars I have use).

 

I'm surprised at the demise of 2-stroke nitro - surely they have a superior power to weight than their 4-stroke counterparts. In any event, I've got 2 x 4-stroke & a 2-stroke so once the fuel arrives I guess I'll see what's what.

 

I absolutely get the appeal of electric models - they're so clean, quiet & smell free but the draw back is the charging (he says while currently cycling NiCd Rx packs to see which ones are recoverable).

[David Davis 2]

Two strokes have a superior power to weight ratio but electric motors can be more powerful. Some of us like four strokes because the noise they make is more pleasant and more suitable for a scale model. Noisy two strokes have lost many a flying field, hence the move towards electric motors.

 

We'd all be interested to see what engines you have and pictures of the kits too.

Edited April 9, 2023 by David Davis 2

[J D 8]

             I recon 2stroke Petrol's with rubbish mufflers have caused site loss issues than glow motors. They also tend to be larger and have a harsher retort.

One caused us some issues a few years ago. To be fair to the pilot he had lost throttle control and the motor was going flat out and he had little choice but to keep going round and round. Dam thing kept going for some 35 minuets.

[Mr Fro]

55 minutes ago, David Davis 2 said:

Two strokes have a superior power to weight ratio but electric motors can be more powerful. Some of us like four strokes because the noise they make is more pleasant and more suitable for a scale model. Noisy two strokes have lost many a flying field, hence the move towards electric motors.

 

We'd all be interested to see what engines you have and pictures of the kits too.

That's understandable. Mind you, EDF can be noisy too - I've been using one for something at work *may not be exactly it's design purpose* and I clocked it at 134 dB full chat on 48 V.

 

Here's the motors I have:

 

I've got the gubbins that goes with them in a box somewhere. 

 

Plane wise I've got a tatty looking foam BAE Hawk:

 

A composite SU37:

 

A Cessna Skylane-182 & a Piper J-3 Cub:

 

A composite G500:

 

And there's a foam robbe BAE 146 in the loft which hasn't made it out yet. I've got all the bits for everything but since the wife put me to work digging out a bloody great veg patch, I don't really have the enthusiasm to root them out for some quick pics!

 

Oh, the slabs are 600 x 600 for scale.

[toto]

A very nice varied selection of kits. I feel more at home with the high wings myself but always nice to hear the roar of a jet. 

 

Thanks for posting up the pictures.

 

Toto

[J D 8]

             Nice engines all worth having.

[Graham Bowers]

1 hour ago, Mr Fro said:

 

 the draw back is the charging

Lots of good things about electric however there's more to do than just the charging, depending on how diligent one is. Lipos can suffer deterioration by being left at too low a state of charge, or left fully charged. So at the end of a flying session unused ones need to be discharged to storage voltage and used ones checked / adjusted to storage level. **

 

**Cue alternative views from those who don't bother. It does depend on how long before the next use, however they do need to be managed / neglected according to ones preferences.

 

Also, there are considerations on where to store them, fireproof bags, boxes etc.

 

I fly glow and electric and both have their plusses and minuses.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Graham Bowers

[Mr Fro]

2 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

Lots of good things about electric however there's more to do than just the charging, depending on how diligent one is. Lipos can suffer deterioration by being left at too low a state of charge, or left fully charged. So at the end of a flying session unused ones need to be discharged to storage voltage and used ones checked / adjusted to storage level. **

 

**Cue alternative views from those who don't bother. It does depend on how long before the next use, however they do need to be managed / neglected according to ones preferences.

 

Also, there are considerations on where to store them, fireproof bags, boxes etc.

 

I fly glow and electric and both have their plusses and minuses.

I have limited experience of LiPo but what I can say is that I have a good few branded packs that were set to storage charge a minimum of 4 years ago and, with the exception of a few puffy ones which I've left alone, they all took the charge they were supposed to take.

[Mr Fro]

Thanks @toto & @J D 8. My wife is a bit on the fence about digging the last one out of the loft. It's a big old thing apparently and she isn't convinced it's worth doing anything with - she's talking about breaking it up and binning it. That's fair enough as it was her dad so her decision.

 

I can't really see me (or the kids when they're old enough) having much opportunity to fly the big ones. The small ones maybe good for a bit of messing about though.

 

I think the main hurdle is the organisation of using them. Get the license, join a club, book a slot and all that. With cars you just go somewhere and rag them about until you're bored.

 

My father-in-law had a knack for spotting rare stuff and squirreling it away - he had quite a few rare Tamiya cars that got snapped up by a very enthusiastic collector but I think he might have bished a bit with the planes.

[toto]

Seems a bit sad to break one up without at least looking at it first. There again, I can respect that it was your wife's dad so fair play. 

 

I'm new myself so appreciate what you say with regards to finding a club ( which I have done ) and securing a trainer ( which I've also managed ). I think it's all down to the distance you have to travel. I'm lucky, it's about half an hour. Reasonable in anyone's book I think.

 

I can understand the question that looms over the commitment of the youngsters though as they can get bored with things quickly and everything you try to involve them in has one huge competitor ......... the games console ...... which can be drafted into service at the slightest whim.

 

Personally, if it were me trying to engage a youngster in the hobby, it would not be good enough to simply let them fly. I think you would have to make sure that you develop the trust to let them get involved at every stage of the process. ...... the build, test, flight and maintainence to try and ensure they see the wider hobby. That means training them and trusting them with the supervised use of all the sharp, dangerous, potentially explosive ..... or electrifying tools and equipment. ...... and after all that ( including the expense ) ..... nothing is guaranteed.

 

However .... having the majority of the stuff there already .... with maybe just some upgrading of radio gear ..... it could be worth the chance. There are a lot of father and son teams / relationships out there that last the test of time.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Cheers

 

Toto 

[Andy Gates]

I think you are incredibly lucky, some superb kit even if acquired in a not so happy way.

 

Not too sure where the "get a licence and book a slot" idea comes from, but that is not how the club I am at works so speak or visit your local clubs first.

If the machine left in the loft is like the others then it would seem criminal to just break it up - at least selling it on means it lives and may put some £'s in your pocket.

 

Whatever you decide, welcome to the hobby / sport / forum.

[GrumpyGnome]

11 hours ago, J D 8 said:

             I recon 2stroke Petrol's with rubbish mufflers have caused site loss issues than glow motors. They also tend to be larger and have a harsher retort.

One caused us some issues a few years ago. To be fair to the pilot he had lost throttle control and the motor was going flat out and he had little choice but to keep going round and round. Dam thing kept going for some 35 minuets.

Hopefully an ignition 'kill' has now been added 🙂

[Mr Fro]

9 hours ago, toto said:

Personally, if it were me trying to engage a youngster in the hobby, it would not be good enough to simply let them fly. I think you would have to make sure that you develop the trust to let them get involved at every stage of the process. ...... the build, test, flight and maintainence to try and ensure they see the wider hobby. That means training them and trusting them with the supervised use of all the sharp, dangerous, potentially explosive ..... or electrifying tools and equipment. ...... and after all that ( including the expense ) ..... nothing is guaranteed.

That's the plan! My son is only 5 and my daughter 3 so a little young for power tools yet.

 

Having said that, grandad promised him his little unimat lathe / mill combo which is currently sitting on the bed of my mill (a.k.a. the friendly robot) ready for when he's old enough. I strongly suspect that my daughter will take more of an interest though!

 

We've kept a couple of buggies and a tank for the kids to use - the tank sees some action and I'm sure that in time the buggies will come out.

 

@Andy Gates - I'm just going by the local club website. It seems they're quite regimented. I will get up there at some point and check the place out.

 

Personally, I'd like to see all his gear to to people who will enjoy it. So far, everyone who has bought stuff from us has been very happy because most things were unused or in pristine condition.