Just got my first open source transmitter (2nd hand X20S) Where would you start?

[Andy C]

I am new to open source, having used Spektrum for many years but thought I would give it a try. Have got myself a second hand X20S from a trusted source and about to order a couple of basic frsky 4 or 6 ch receivers to get started with.   Only looking to use the most basic functions on some simple foam and IC models. 
 

Any recommendations on how to approach this journey please?

 

[MattyB]

Don't be confused by the fact this is a Frsky TX, and they were the first major commercial players to leverage open source firmwares. The X20 uses ETHOS, which (whilst taking inspiration from the open source firmwares) is actually closed source - it's built by Frsky for Frsky TXs only, and the source code is unavailable. 

 

Putting that aside, just go to Mike Shellim's Ethos pages and start there - as always his resources are well written and will be a great primer. He also has several templates for use for different model types, though given his interests they are silent flight biased. For anything you can't find there, have a search of the the RC Groups X20 and ETHOS for dummies threads.

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by MattyB

[GBG]

Another good source of information are the video's on Youtube by 'Mr. D- falling with style'. I have found them very helpful.

[Andy C]

Thanks guys. 
 

with it being second hand is there any benefit in doing some sort of factory reset?

[Capt Kremen]

+1 for 'Mr D' and suggest ensuring all components i.e. Tx and compatible Rx are updated to the latest software.

This is quite straightforward with the ETHOS Suite which tells you if an update is available, just click 'update' and it does everything for you.

Superb set, (I have RadioMaster TX16S MkII and the X20S is much less faff if all you want is to fly with a reliable piece of kit).

If you love programming though you can still devise all manner of permutations etc. in the numerous menus.

[MattyB]

3 hours ago, Andy C said:

Thanks guys. 
 

with it being second hand is there any benefit in doing some sort of factory reset?

 

Other than wiping any pre-existing model memories, I'm not sure whether there would be any value in doing that. I'm not even sure it is possible tbh.

[paul devereux]

This may be the wrong place to ask, or maybe the right place- what is the point of 'open source' radios- don't commercial ones have enough mixing features already? I have heard people say how good Taranis is- why is it good? 

[Graham Bowers]

3 minutes ago, paul devereux said:

This may be the wrong place to ask, or maybe the right place- what is the point of 'open source' radios- don't commercial ones have enough mixing features already? I have heard people say how good Taranis is- why is it good? 

It's not just mixing features that makes OpenTx what it is. It's a completely flexible system where all channels and mixes are freely assignable. Other features such as logical switches, global variables  and special functions enable one to do pretty much what ever one wants. I'm not going to explain what all that means as now you know the trigger words, it's easy enough for you to look up. I went Taranis / OpenTx because it was the closest to the Multiplex P4000 functionality I knew about at the time. I was using a P4000 up to then, however it was a 35 MHz 1980's transmitter.

 

I have a multiplex cockpit transmitter and it's a beautiful thing. I've tried so hard to love it, but it won't do what I want. One example is the timer. When you set up a countdown timer, for the last 5 minutes of the flight, it announces every minute. I don't want that, and no way to stop it.

 

I went to the Weston show last friday and had a look at a Jeti transmitter and got the man in the tent to demonstrate it. One model I fly, it pitches down when rudder is applied. This isn't uncommon. So I wanted a mix that would apply a bit of up elevator when i applied rudder. Up elevator when I applied both left and right rudder, but not an equal amount in both rudder directions, as the prop wash has some rotation. The test was a success.

 

The Taranis can do all that at about a third of the price.

 

I believe some of the other manufacturer's high spec offerings are as capable, however at a high price.

[Wookman]

25 minutes ago, paul devereux said:

don't commercial ones have enough mixing features already?

Very often not.

 

26 minutes ago, paul devereux said:

I have heard people say how good Taranis is- why is it good?

Emence flexibillity. If you can think it up It will be able to do it.

[MattyB]

45 minutes ago, paul devereux said:

This may be the wrong place to ask, or maybe the right place- what is the point of 'open source' radios- don't commercial ones have enough mixing features already? I have heard people say how good Taranis is- why is it good? 

 

Because the Open source radios offer huge functionality and flexibility at a price point that you traditionally had to pay £1k+ to get all those features, if not more. 

 

No need to go OT and discuss it here though; there is a dedicated thread you can read that should answer your question in far greater detail...

 

 

[Philip Lewis 3]

Not to be too old fashioned but install ethos suite version 1.4.8 and then open it and go the documentation tab at the bottom and download the manual, it's suprisingly readable.

[GrumpyGnome]

@paul devereux

 

My take..... 

 

Things my buddy's £1800 radio has that my £180 radio doesn't:

1. a camera

2. Wifi

3. Nice solid case.

 

Things my £180 radio has that my buddies £1800 one doesn't:

1. Practically infinite functionality re channels and mixing - you want do something, you can, however esoteric!

2. Ability to communicate with many many receiver brands

3. A pc based suite that allows me to try things without having to use the radio itself

4. Affordable spares and upgrades (useful for when your cat knocks it off a table.....

 

Once you grasp the basic concept, Open Source (OpenTX/EdgeTX) is no more difficult than any other brand I've used......... in fact, it's often easier because you don't need to try and think like the developer of the manufacturers os.

 

I'm not knocking ANY brand but Open Source has revolutionised the market, as new brands can concentrate on hardware, and not spend millions on software developers.

[GrumpyGnome]

Regarding the op, there are some good YouTube videos about both Ethos and X20S - worth spending an hour watching.

 

Having felt my chums X20S, I think my ideal radio would be:

• X20S (feels SOOOO much nicer than my Radiomaster)
• MPM capability
• EdgeTX.

[Andy C]

18 hours ago, MattyB said:

 

Other than wiping any pre-existing model memories, I'm not sure whether there would be any value in doing that. I'm not even sure it is possible tbh.

Ok thanks for your thoughts MB. I guess I keep trying to compare to Windows based PCs where after a while they tend to slow and become more ineffective the more you use them and so benefit from a reset every so often. Happy just to delete models in this case. 

[Andy C]

thanks GG and PL3. Looks like I may have a busy weekend ahead of me. 😀

[paul devereux]

16 hours ago, MattyB said:

 

Because the Open source radios offer huge functionality and flexibility at a price point that you traditionally had to pay £1k+ to get all those features, if not more. 

 

No need to go OT and discuss it here though; there is a dedicated thread you can read that should answer your question in far greater detail...

 

 

 

2 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

@paul devereux

 

My take..... 

 

Things my buddy's £1800 radio has that my £180 radio doesn't:

1. a camera

2. Wifi

3. Nice solid case.

 

Things my £180 radio has that my buddies £1800 one doesn't:

1. Practically infinite functionality re channels and mixing - you want do something, you can, however esoteric!

2. Ability to communicate with many many receiver brands

3. A pc based suite that allows me to try things without having to use the radio itself

4. Affordable spares and upgrades (useful for when your cat knocks it off a table.....

 

Once you grasp the basic concept, Open Source (OpenTX/EdgeTX) is no more difficult than any other brand I've used......... in fact, it's often easier because you don't need to try and think like the developer of the manufacturers os.

 

I'm not knocking ANY brand but Open Source has revolutionised the market, as new brands can concentrate on hardware, and not spend millions on software developers.

Yes, I understand now! Thanks!

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Andy C said:

Ok thanks for your thoughts MB. I guess I keep trying to compare to Windows based PCs where after a while they tend to slow and become more ineffective the more you use them and so benefit from a reset every so often. Happy just to delete models in this case. 

 

Thanksfully the vast majority of TXs do not suffer from the bloatware inflicted on PCs, though some users of the Android based Spektrum TXs have had some complaints in this area. Just another reason not to spend £1k+ on a TX running Android when there are better alternatives available; it seems in releasing the thigher end NX series Spektrum may have come to this conclusion themselves...!

[Andy48]

Having recently bought an X20, I must say I am somewhat disappointed in it. Not with the transmitter itself, that is excellent, but Ethos is proving to be somewhat of a challenge to programme with all the bells and whistles I had on OpenTX. The thing I miss the most though is the computer-based editor on OpenTX.

[Andy48]

4 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Regarding the op, there are some good YouTube videos about both Ethos and X20S - worth spending an hour watching.

 

Having felt my chums X20S, I think my ideal radio would be:

• X20S (feels SOOOO much nicer than my Radiomaster)
• MPM capability
• EdgeTX.

 

According to their website, EdgeTX doesn't support the X20, which is a real pity.

[MattyB]

18 minutes ago, Andy48 said:

Having recently bought an X20, I must say I am somewhat disappointed in it. Not with the transmitter itself, that is excellent, but Ethos is proving to be somewhat of a challenge to programme with all the bells and whistles I had on OpenTX. The thing I miss the most though is the computer-based editor on OpenTX.

 

Yes, that is what has stopped me adding an X18 or X20 to my collection so far. I think I saw posted somewher that it is on the developer backlog, but I'm not sure at what point they are due to deliver it.

 

Yep, here it is about halfway down the page...

Edited June 21, 2023 by MattyB

[MattyB]

30 minutes ago, Andy48 said:

 

According to their website, EdgeTX doesn't support the X20, which is a real pity.

 

It never will either, certainly not in a Frsky supported manner anyway. They have cut their ties with the OS community and made their bed - the key question is whether they can keep a group of developers onboard that will develop and support ETHOS in the long term and make it into something that can compete with EdgeTX/OpenTX in terms of functionality as well as usability. The latter is definitely better for newcomers (even without a Companion equivalent for off-TX programming), but the former still lacks in a few areas from what I can tell - lack of GVARs and the input layer to name two, there may be more as well.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by MattyB

[Philip Lewis 3]

Well I fly what are relatively complex set ups with multiple fligh modes controlled by logic switces etc and all I can say is that there is nothing I have not been able to do.

 

Certainly nothing I could have done in Open TX that I can't do in Ethos.

 

Quite frankly I find Ethos much easier to use but then again I never used GVARS anyway, (only got three planes).

[Mike Blandford]

FrSky have not released any hardware details on the X20 to the open source community. I have managed to work out most of the required information, and have ported erskyTx to the X20. It may be run as a "dual boot" system so it is easy to swap between ETHOS and erskyTx. erskyTx on the X20 does support the MPM with telemetry.

For those who don't know erskyTx, openTx was forked from er9x/erskyTx, and many things a similar in both, although many erskyTx users prefer the menu system of erskyTx.

I haven't, yet, sorted using the internal module in Tandem mode, so it only operates on 2.4G at present (ACCST and ACCESS).

 

Recently I moved all the hardware specific code into a binary module so all the processor connections are not visible in the source code. This module will be made available to the EdgeTx developers. I understand they are intending to work on the X20 at some point.

 

Mike

[MattyB]

15 hours ago, Mike Blandford said:

FrSky have not released any hardware details on the X20 to the open source community. I have managed to work out most of the required information, and have ported erskyTx to the X20. It may be run as a "dual boot" system so it is easy to swap between ETHOS and erskyTx. erskyTx on the X20 does support the MPM with telemetry.

For those who don't know erskyTx, openTx was forked from er9x/erskyTx, and many things a similar in both, although many erskyTx users prefer the menu system of erskyTx.

I haven't, yet, sorted using the internal module in Tandem mode, so it only operates on 2.4G at present (ACCST and ACCESS).

 

Recently I moved all the hardware specific code into a binary module so all the processor connections are not visible in the source code. This module will be made available to the EdgeTx developers. I understand they are intending to work on the X20 at some point.

 

Mike

 

Amazing work Mike - the only problem I guess is that this all has to be done from scratch every time a new TX is released if Frsky are not going to offer up the hardware information themselves. Entirely understandable - it's their commercial IP after all - but it does mean that there iwll always be a huge lag between a new TX emerging and EdgeTX/erskyTX versions following it.

[Ron Gray]

42 minutes ago, MattyB said:

always be a huge lag between a new TX emerging and EdgeTX/erskyTX versions following it

But it may also mean that FrSky will also up their game and provide more functionality in ETHOS.

 

Personally when I've compared the X20 to my X10S Express I really do like its feel and layout (screen on top). I've seen what fellow members have done with ETHOs in particular @Kevin Fairgrieve and see that there are very few things I would miss going over to ETHOS. whilst I use GVARS I can live without them!

Edited June 22, 2023 by Ron Gray