leccyflyer Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 I don't know anyone in our group that flies Mode 1 and I don't think anyone has the 450mm Top RC Models - all of our Bf109s are the 400mm Volantex models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBG Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Will check the trims later. I haven't noticed any difference in trim when changing the gyro switch in flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 Thanks gbg, very much appreciated. This problem may be limited to mode 1 models, maybe to bf109 mode 1 only. Still waiting for a further email from Perkins, the shop who supplied me is "in the loop". Depending on Perkins reply, I will post a transcript of Thier initial reply and suggestions..... Yes please, if you could test your digital trims..... Anyone, anyone have a mode 1 bf109 450mm w/span toprc model purchased recently ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBG Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Just checked the trims. Throttle trim only gives single beeps and only in the low throttle direction, no beeps in high throttle direction. As you mentioned the throttle trim seems to have no effect on motor speed. All the other trims work as normal, single push gives one beep and holding the trim switch on gives multiple beeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 If the TXs are like the Volantex ones you set the throttle range by cycling the throttle stick to full throttle, to low throttel whcih then arms the throttle and when you open up again it works. I'm not seeing what possible use a throttle trim would have in a model such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Have you actually tried to fly the model or is it just the action of the trims which is providing a concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 Thanks gbg, much appreciated. Glad your mode 2 Mustang behaves as expected. Any trim check when the gyro switch is used at all ? The manual says it can be used in flight..... Hi leccy, throttle down trim to "extend" throttle stick throttle off position, dead band, a legacy from IC....I thought an increased throttle off "stroke" if the throttle stick a good idea.... I have not even attempted to fly this model as there is definitely several issues with it, battery positive location so it doesn't move about in flight and fits in the same place more or less accurately every time it is fitted, binding/sticking and probable stalling ( brown outing/burning out of servo/Rx PCB ? ) of servo due to binding/sticking elevator control rod, quite severe trim change when gyro switch position changed even in flight, and lack of elevator digital trim change. All important and "safety critical" issues of the model and environment/people, in my view. Still waiting for further reply from Perkins. I strongly suspect this "problem" is limited to mode 1 models and maybe just to the bf109.... I have informed the shop if this problem and thread. I have emailed Perkins again this morning and awaiting Thier reply..... Anyone else got this mode 1 model, toprc 450mm w/span bf109, or same wing span mode 1 spit/Mustang ????? Do you have the bf109 given to you by David Ashby ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 TBH none of the issues you describe are in any way safety critical. It's irrelevant that the throttle trim doesn't appear to operate as you expect it to, the model doesn't have any use of the throttle trim when flying - you've set the throttle range when you go through the sequence preparing for flight. When you close the throttle the motor stops. It's a diddy electric model, not an IC model. The battery location - just as in any model, battery retention is important, but a sliver of foam or balsa or a tiny piece of velcro would be more than enough to retain the 1s 400mah battery anywhere you would wish in the battery compartment. Certainly in the 400mm versions there isn't room for the battery to move at all. Perhaps you could post a picture showing the issue that you are having with a mobile battery. All of this is moot though, as the seller has advised that you return the model to them and if it's faulty then they should provide a replacement. Under the distance selling regulations they don't have a choice - if you decided that you didn't want the model, but wanted a full refund they wouldn't have a choice either, you don't have to even provide a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) What about lack of expected elevator trim, a stiff/sticky/binding elevator control rod/possible servo stall/brown out/burn out, and, the large trim changes due to gyro switch use, whilst model is in flight ? The manfacturers manual states the gyro switch can be used in flight. Should one have to "improve or modify" any "faults" on a new model which will invalidate the gaurantee ? See thread about instinct, reflect action, in tune with tx and model aircraft..... Still waiting for Perkins further reply.... Edited August 8, 2023 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Best course of action here is undoubtedly to return the model to the seller and have them deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 27 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: What about lack of expected elevator trim, a stiff/sticky/binding elevator control rod/possible servo stall/brown out/burn out, and, the large trim changes due to gyro switch use, whilst model is in flight ? The manfacturers manual states the gyro switch can be used in flight. Should one have to "improve or modify" any "faults" on a new model which will invalidate the gaurantee ? See thread about instinct, reflect action, in tune with tx and model aircraft..... Still waiting for Perkins further reply.... You said in an earlier post above that the elevator responds when the elevator trim is used. Yet, in the other thread that you have started, you are postulating that the throttle trim is controlling the elevator. Does the elevator trim - that's the up and down trim on the left hand stick in Mode One - cause the elevator position to change when the trim lever is operated, or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Just a thought and I don't know these models but the stabilisation mode may be confusing your impression of the trim activity. It's possible that stabilisation is over riding your input while testing in a static position... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Martin - switching between Beginner mode, Intermediate Mode and Expert Mode will naturally cause a trim change - the pilot has minimal and restricted control in Beginner mode, but much more control of elevator in Intermediate mode. There is also quite a bit more up elevator deflection available than down elevator deflection and it is different in each mode. The amount of trim adjustment available in each mode is also different and can be quite minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Sorry - not your impression Leccy, Rich Griff's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Hi Martin - my comments referred to the TopRC transmitter that I use with my 400mm FW190 and I'd imagine that they would be the same, or similar, for all of the models in the Top RC range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 See paragraph three on first post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Paragraph three just asks if anyone else has one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Paragraph four in the first post says that there is no trim movement on elevator when the trim lever is operated. On 05/08/2023 at 13:17, Rich Griff said: After reading the recent article in rcme ( June issue ? ) Magazine, I took the plunge... I would have liked the spitfire version ( the wife loves them ) but settled on the bf109 version, mode 1. Anyone else got one of these ? The "digital trim" on elevator does not bleep when given down trim command and only bleeps per " pull" one bleep at a time rather than "multi bleeps" when held in up command. No "central bleep" when system detects "central position" and no trim movement seen on elevator at all. Throttle trim bleeps on up and down throttle trim but does not seem to effect maximum power or throttle off. Anyone else having this problem ? Replies appreciated before I contact supplier and Perkins... Not flown yet as suspect a problem and it's far tooooooooooooo rough and wet here... Thanks 20 hours ago, Rich Griff said: Thanks gbg, May I also ask, throttle left, if you push the digital trim away from you ( throttle up ), do you hear one bleep from the tx, and, if digital trim pressed away from you, and held, you hear continual bleeds. Similarly, digital trim pressed once towards you, throttle down, you hear one bleepy, held gives continual bleeps ? Also, elevator digital trim, pressed either way, elevator moves slightly. One last question, if model trimmed with gyro switch towards you, and you change gyro switch to centre or even fully away from you, are any control surfaces now out of initial trim ? Thanks for your patience in this..... However the follow up post later, says that there is elevator movement when the elevator trim is operated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 I think they were questions about a mode 2 Mustang tx, for comparison/similarities perhaps... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: I think they were questions about a mode 2 Mustang tx, for comparison/similarities perhaps... Rich Could you confirm what happens when you operate the trim lever on the right hand side of the transmitter? Does the elevator move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) Ok, I emailed Perkins about issues with this model toprc fb109 450 mm wing span mode 1 artf model, a complete "kit" just needing Rx battery charging, batteries fitting and final assembly. A quick ready to fly model. I mentioned.... A. Battery movement in battery bay which I consider would cause trim changes whilst in flight. ( Trim changes, varying battery position, variable c of g, "atitude", angle of attack ). B. Binding/stiff elevator control rod, possible servo stall, poor elevator control. C. Quite large trim changes of elevator and rudder when gyro switch operated. Manual states gyro switch can be operated whilst model is in flight. D. No elevator trim function via trim button. I had an email reply from a j Perkins representative JP Service Knowledge Base dept. A. " With the wing fitted the battery can move a small amount, and does not effect trim.". The battery can move more than a "small amount" and would, as is, move about enough to cause change in c of g, "attitude" and angle of attack, in my opinion. I could easily make a fitment cradle so battery fits in same place every time without compromising air flow cooling in battery bay area. B. Stuff control rod. This subject was not answered at all ! Poor elevator control, servo struggling to achieve anything like full deflection easily, possible servo stalling, brown out, burn out. Needs push rod "hole" sorting rather than letting push rod saw its way into the fuzelage to free its self off. Difficult as surface control horns are locked to control surfaces via barb and catch. C. Large trim change via gyro switch. " The surface movement when holding the model in your hand and toggling the trainer switch is probably due to the model not being level and the electronics trying to correct. This is normal. ". Probably ???? It was on level ground, a table actually, set as level as I could get it. Why would elevator and rudder "rest, trimmed" positions change, but not ailerons as well.....these trim changes would cause a crash in very quick time. Yes I could just trim surfaces when gyro in fixed position, and not alter it in flight. Manual says gyro which can be used in flight. D. No elevator trim button function. This subject was not answered at all other than..... " Hi Richard, sorry, it seems that the factory have supplied TX's with the throttle and elevator trims reversed, so that elevator trim is on R/H side and throttle on L/H side. ". No wonder I saw no elevator trim.... After some further emails from me asking about unanswered issues he replied..... " Hi Richard It might be best to return the kit back to your shop for credit/refund but it might be worth just flying it with gyro off on first flight, trimming and then trying with stabilisation switched on His name " Yeah right. No refund for a crashed model aircraft ! So, it's going back to the shop. They are interested in Perkins suggestions which I will be emailing to them with full names etc.. Would I recommend the toprc bf109 450mm wing span mode 1 top096B ? Apparently there are no issues with a mode 2 Mustang, gbg has one. I am mode 1. Doh.... Edited August 8, 2023 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 Ps, c of g is a point "in space" usually within the fuzelage taking into consideration for and aft, side to side, and some other factors, as a "balance point ". It can sometimes be difficult to achieve the "balance point " location and suspend from it. A datum point in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 I wouldn't get too hung up [not intentional but good eh?] about establishing the true C of G - for stability purposes we're only interested in the longitudinal position so balancing on an extended axis under [or above if low wing] is quite OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrunner Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Rich why don't you just stop making a song and dance about it and send it back for a refund. It's a cheap toy and not worth getting in a flap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 Side to side is important as well Martin but we know that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.