Giant Cod

[Erfolg]

Assuming that the head office of GC is Hong Kong, there is no reason for the Head Office to have a VAT number, although there local (UK) outlet would.

 

This seems an area, where we need to be careful that scurrilous rumours and innuendo are not attributed to this site, and its members.

 

If anyone has any concerns with respect to the legality of any organisation or person with respect to their trading practices and taxes, they should alert HM Inland Revenue and Customs or the appropriate Trading Standards office.

 

If the concern is that goods originate fro outside of the EU, that is another issue. I would be surprised if other wholesale/distributor organisations did not obtain some if not the majority of their distributed products from outside the EU. As I look outside the window, which I am sitting by, I can see a Toyota, a Hyundai across the road. If I go into the kitchen, the various cupboards contain foods from Kenya, Cyprus and Egypt, just to mention a few. All potentially or definitely not off UK origin.

 

There seems nothing different with respect to GC, other than they miss out the wholesaler/distributor, being a wrinkly shed/internet operation.

[kc]

Lots of people think they are buying from a UK company but their own website says they are a Hong Kong company! And they themselves say they cannot supply a VAT invoice because they are Hong Kong based.

It cannot be any clearer, so that must mean we are buying from Hong Kong.

[Erfolg]

KC

 

I have looked previously, and just had another look at the GC site. For the live of me I cannot find the information you are so adamant about. What I see is that GC is part of Good Feature Enterprise etc. located in Hong Kong

 

At present I cannot understand what you keep repeating. Are you really trying to say as an example, because the head office for the Ford Motor company is in the USA, that any car purchased from Ford UK, must be being dispatched from the USA, for delivery to the UK purchaser, or something else?

 

In the case of Ford, if I wanted and had a legitimate need for a VAT registration number, I would not expect the USA office to provide it.

 

[kc]

Erfolg you are just muddying the waters! Everyone knows you can buy a foreign made car but you normally buy it from a UK dealer and the dealer charges VAT & provides the VAT invoice. The customer pays the local dealer not head office. If the car was made abroad any duty and VAT are levied on importation. If you buy it abroad you arrange the import yourself and pay any duty & VAT involved at the port of importation..( you then register the car for number plates etc )

The sale of an item seems to revolve around to whom you actually pay money or a 'consideration' So I would expect the country of sale to be determined by who actually receives the money from the buyer. If we buy goods & pay our money to a UK company they have to charge VAT ( on most goods ) if they have a turnover of over 71000 pounds. Less turnover would be exempt from VAT on sales but they would not be able to recover the VAT they paid on importation. So an importer is likely to to elect to be registered for VAT even if they have a turnover somewhat less than 71000

 

The website for GC clearly sates they are a Hong Kong company and the info about not being able to provide a VAT invoice is contained in an e-mail from them which I cut and pasted into my posting yesterday. Ask them yourself if you doubt my info. I asked them if they included VAT in their prices and could they supply a VAT invoice. They replied almost immediately with the answer I showed yesterday.

I

Edited By kc on 20/10/2011 15:53:26

[Bill_B]

Personally I don't care if GC is a HK based company, or based anywhere else in the world for that matter. What counts for me is the fact that they can supply the goods that I need in a timely fashion, and at a price that suits my wallet. Long may they continue their excellent service.

[Erfolg]

KC

 

You purchase your goods from a company located in the UK.

 

Your invoice is from GC, Clearly stating

 

Giant Cod RC

MJF Logistics Ltd

New Road

Perranporth

TR6 0UL

United Kingdom

 

 

 

The web site clearly states GC are part of another business. Ford UK are Part of Ford of America.

 

From a purchasers point of view, there is not an issue.

 

If you want the Vat No., ask GC. Not the holding company. If you purchase something, with a request for the number, I would be surprised if you did not receive it. On the other hand if you ask for the information with no legitimate reason, just an inquiry, I would not necessarily be surprised if the request is ignored.

 

If you believe there is tax evasion by that business, or any other misdeed, inform the relevant authorities.

 

As for me, I will continue trading with them, as I have no issues.

[Devon Flyer]

Posted by Gumball on 20/10/2011 16:12:51:
Personally I don't care if GC is a HK based company, or based anywhere else in the world for that matter. What counts for me is the fact that they can supply the goods that I need in a timely fashion, and at a price that suits my wallet. Long may they continue their excellent service.

+1

[Alan Randall]

IF GC is a Hong Kong based Company, is this any different to Hobby king having a German or Auatralian Wharehouse (and perhaps one in the uk soon). Hobby King's prices from the German Wharehouse reflect Euro Zone VAT etc. So, I would imagine, do GCs.

Whilst GCs Lipo prices are good for the UK, they are dearer than Hobby Kings HK prices, so is this profiteering, or, as I suspect, just good old VAT.

[Reno Racer]

No issues with GC, whenever I order, they deliver very promptly and I'm happy to support a small UK business in the SW, whatever they're larger affiliation. My only complaint is that most of the time, the stuff i need is not in stock. (more of this below)

 

I am suprised at the level of discussion here. It is not difficult to see that many of GC products are exacxtly the same as HK (or is that HKi), Like the 4-Max Purple Power motors, they are all Turnigy rebranded. therefore, its not too difficult to work out that Rob gets all his stock from China. Unless he buys direct from another supplier, such as HKi, then he will need a trading partner in China to enable him to do this.

 

Like many other UK companies, he is just getting stock from a trading company in China and suppling it from his UK based warehouse/unit. Thats why he is often out of stock. i Suspect he has to be part of a wider Chinese affiliation in order to trade in China, without been fully Chinese based.

 

I agree with other comments, about his prices been more than the exact same product in HKi. However, the advantage of ordering from GC is that:

 

- It arrives pretty quickly and at a very resonable postage cost.

 

- By ordering from GC you are keeping some UK employees, employed.

 

- You don't pay elevated postage fees (it amazes me that some of the HKi stuff that weights 100grams, is listed as 1.5Kgs and costs a fair amount to post. I'm sick of paying for little packets of air inside a big box, when a padded envelope would be just fine.

[kc]

Erfolg, It may be it's changed recently. MJF Logistics Ltd were only registered on 9 th May 2011 according to Experian and the site BEB referenced. I have asked Giant Cod ( I asked the UK website yesterday ) if they can supply a VAT invoice and if their prices include VAT And as you can read their answer is they cannot as they are a Hong Kong company. So we are not buying from a UK firm registered for VAT. We have not paid VAT in the price or they would be required to provide a VAT invoice.

I think we are now buying from Hong Kong and the Logistics company is just a forwarding agent or something similar.

 

If we are buying from outside the EC we are responsible for ensuring the items comply with EC legislation.

[PatMc]

Posted by kc on 20/10/2011 18:09:52:

 

If we are buying from outside the EC we are responsible for ensuring the items comply with EC legislation.

We are not buying from outside the EEC we are buying from a Cornish based retailer who's parent company is in HK. Compliance of any goods sold is the responsibility of the retailer - i.e.

Giantcod.

GC can not unilaterally relinquish their UK traders' responsibilities.The information in the email is wrong as is some of the guarantee exclusion in the T&C information in their website.

 

Any tax issues are not the customers' concern but a matter between GC & HMRC.

 

 

 

Edited By PatMc on 20/10/2011 19:23:24

[kc]

Everyone seems confused about this so I emailed GiantCod and asked a direct question

"Please answer who I will be paying my money to, is my purchase from a British company or not. "

a couple of replies were not really clear merely stating despatch was UK.

 

So I asked again " would I be purchasing from a British company. So please answer this point."

 

The reply from Giant Cod Admin was "No - You would not be purchasing from a British company"

So its clear we are not buying in Britain, but Hong Kong.

[PatMc]

That doesn't change the fact that it's a British retail point of sale & that all UK trading standards & liability will apply to any goods purchased from them.

 

 

[Pete B]

Of course you are buying in Britain, kc.

 

Cornwall is not in Hong Kong, Hong Kong doesn't use HM's postage stamps (well, labels....) and they wouldn't be able to get the goods to your door in 24 hours anyway!

 

Have you considered asking HMRC what they think of GC's status?

 

GC might just have discovered a legitimate loophole in the VAT regs. Given that this subject gets a regular airing on the forums, I'd have thought that if it was iffy, HMRC would have done something about it by now.

 

Pete

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

KC

 

You asked "Am I buying from a British Company" They answered "no". How on earth do you get from there to "so its clear we are not buying in Britian we are buying in HK"?

 

Nissan are not a British company, but if I buy a Nissan car from a Nissan dealership in Liverpool I am buying in the UK. The transaction is subject to UK law and UK taxes. The fact that the parent company is ultimately Japanese has absolutely no bearing what so ever on the nature of my purchase from a local dealer.

 

If it comes to that Futaba, Specktrum, JR, OS, Saito and so on aren't British companies. But when you buy their stuff - lets say for argument's sake in Cornwall - do you conclude that you are not buying in Britain?

 

BEB

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 19/10/2011 19:28:59:

I am a little puzzled with respects to the problem of companies which have their head office out side of the UK. On that basis, Santander, Apple, Telecom, Microsoft, Airbus should be avoided.

 

 

 

 

I assume that by Telecom you're referring to BT in your list above - if so, please enlighten me but I have always known their registered address and head office as being:

 

BT Group plc
Registered office: 81 Newgate Street, London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in England and Wales No. 4190816

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

Ah Martin
Is that not nit picking a bit

[GrahamC]

Having an envelope of items from Giant God that were sent to me in error sat in front of me, with their address on it, I wonder if it works somthing like this....

 

An individual wants to set up a company supplying items that can be cheaply sourced in the far east to customers in the UK. The buisiness is never going to be huge but it can provide a good income for a handful of people. (How much can you make on a servo you sell for £2.50?)

 

So I set up a company in Hong Kong to receive items from different manufacturers and arrange shipment to the UK. Duty is obviously paid at point of entry to the UK. We are not after all talking about items costing less than £18 or gifts.

 

I then need to either find a company or set up a company to handle the warehousing and distribution activities. I might be a shareholder in the company, or I might not. They will bill me for my services and if their turnover is suffiient, VAT presumably would be payable on their bill.

 

This allows the HK company to explore other hobby areas in which itmes might be cheaply sourced and sold through UK web sites. (Anyone noticed the fishing and camping stuff creeping in?)

 

I wonder if when I make an order with GC who my contract is actually with. It may be with a company in HK who then arrange shipment from their agent in the UK. I wouldn't pretend to understand tax laws, but I wonder if that may mean that I am buying duty paid items rather than paying VAT.

 

Interesting that MJF Logistics only came into being in May this year. (That's who your stuff comes from when you order from GC)

 

Anyway - I'm a fan of Giant Cod. They may in reality be a company based in HK but the customer services is in the UK and they were great and quick sorting out the problem with these servo's I have to return. Perhaps I had better gor off to the Post Office!

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Seamus O'Leprosy on 22/10/2011 08:06:28:
Ah Martin
Is that not nit picking a bit

Not really, if someone is possibly publishing misleading information about a company that I hold shares in and stating that they should arguably be avoided on that basis. If their status has changed, I'd like to know about it!

Getting back to the point a little, if I order goods from a company which sends them from Cornwall, then I don't see how anyone can argue that I have imported them, whoever their parent company might be. If something did arrive direct from China then it might be a different matter but I'm unaware that this has ever happened.

 

As far as VAT and other taxes are concerned, I'm as interested in this as much as I would be if I bought a pair of underpants from Marks and Sparks...

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/10/2011 10:38:30

[Alan Cantwell]

just read the last 2 pages of this, seems you are buying from a company, that imports to a mailing address on your behalf, saving you the bother of doing it, they get round the VAT, and probably import tax, its a legal loophole for you to enjoy, all i can say is, WHAT A GOOD DO!!!! can i play? do they do I.C. stuff??????? stop being so serious, its the company who will eventually get done, not the brit model guys, until the loophole is closed (and if anyone looks in on this lot, that will be soon) enjoy it, and milk it

Edited By Alan 4 on 22/10/2011 10:43:28

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

fair point Alan
and when it boils down to it there is really now difference apart from scale, between GC and CML

[PatMc]

Why do people go on "booze cruises" ?

 

If it was possible to avoid tax & duty as has been suggested that GC are doing then a French company could open a base in UK, sell from there & save everyone traipsing across to Calais.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

As far as I can see, Alan, there's no cause to consider anything amiss and your analysis of the operation seems to imply that they are acting as a middle man on a per transaction basis - when demonstrably this isn't an operation any different to the company you're involved with, Marks and Sparks or any other firm which imports goods and then retails them.

 

If they can receive my order, send it on to China, receive the goods and then send them to me to arrive the morning after I hit the order button (which is very often the case), then Rob must have access to the TARDIS...

[kc]

It is quite impressive that Giant Cod has such a loyal customer base many of whom consider they are ordering from a British company. In fact many here have argued this point despite the information on their website that they are a Hong Kong company ( now ) Obviously GC are thriving because they please their customers.

 

However the correct info ( as far as one can tell ) becomes clear in the e-mail responses I have received. So that you can all read for yourself I am showing the details here. Just the dates etc have been removed for brevity, but if BEB etc wants a copy of the original e-mail sent to them I will forward it in it's entirety. GC replies are shown in bold.

 

My e-mail "Do your prices include VAT? and will a VAT invoice be supplied?"

Reply


Hi,

No giantcod is based in Hong Kong and can therefore not produce VAT invoices, see out about us page.

Regards,
Giantcod.

My e-mail "I thought you were a UK company. Can you confirm that if I buy radio goods from you I will be buying from a UK company or purchasing from Hong Kong?"
Reply

Hi,

The goods will be shipped from the U.K.

Regards,


My e-mail "The question I asked was whether I would be buying from a Hong Kong company or A UK company.
Please answer who I will be paying my money to, is my purchase from a British company or not."

Reply
Giantcod is part of Good Feature Enterprise Tseun Wan Hong Kong.

Taken from the about us page.

Regards,

My e-mail "Your answer confuses me. I asked if I would be purchasing from a British company. So please answer this point."

Reply
No.
My e-mail
"Sorry, your answer is ambiguous. Do you mean 'No ' you wont answer? or do you mean I would not be purchasing from a British company?"

Reply
A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, with the following response:

No - You would not be purchasing from a British company

 

 

My conclusion.

So that clarifies & ends the matter I think and the confirmation that this is correct & you are buying from Hong Kong is the fact that no VAT is charged. Only the very smallest business can be under the VAT threshold in Britain ( usually a one man service business not a sales business)

Edited By kc on 22/10/2011 11:31:25

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Surely the business model is of no concern to the buyer if the goods are supplied from the UK. I do not normally concern myself with whether a retailer is collecting VAT or not - that's between them and the tax man and I am not doing anything underhand or illegal in openly ordering goods over the internet.

 

Should these goods come direct to me from another country, I accept that I will be liable to pay any duties assessed and would not have attempted to defraud the IR. However, my expectation and experience is that they come from the UK and as such will have passed through Customs as part of a larger commercial shipment.

 

Why concern yourself any further?

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/10/2011 11:56:08