Guest Flying at your Club ? Yes or No?

[Mark Stringer]

Dave B - I do see your point and yes I added Ratby for a reason as I am still the owner and hoped to show that I am both genuine and responsible as well as being tracable and not just someone that would come along and cause a load of problems and then dissapear never to be seen again - as I am totally traceable

Ratby, in a similar way to Galaxy (though it was obviously never anything like that size) was killed off by the advent of the ARTF / RFT arrival - though it does look like people are starting to get back into building again.

Also to show that I have done a fair bit of Show Flying in my time which I hope again adds to my capability as a responsible model pilot.

Great feed back from everyone though - very interesting - keep it coming!

[graeme jones]

Some of the above leaves me wondering how "no guest" clubs recruit new members. There is a catch 22, you can't fly unless you are a member and you can't be a member (even as a guest for a day) unless you can fly (but you can't fly because you are not a member...............................). The argument that "insurance does not cover guests" is surely spurious. My BMFA insurance covers me to fly, I do not have to be a club member to do that. Do these clubs have insurance other than BMFA, in which case why do their members have to join the BMFA?

Clubs with a "no guest flights" rule because of incidents in the past would seem to missing the point of the hobby i.e. to do something we enjoy. I wonder how many people up and down the UK fly alone because of the attitude of their local club? Should I start a thread to discuss that?

[Alan Cantwell]

i think you have the wrong idea, any club i have been in has actively encouraged guests, but do NOT let them have access to the field without a member being present, and them yes, only three times, that bit is in every clubs rules i have been involved with    

Bury will also go the extra mile, and lend a guest the club trainer (under buddy box )   and let them have a fly,  with this,  the flyer is covered by the buddy box holders insurance,  

Edited By Alan Cantwell on 02/10/2012 17:59:28

[Peter Miller]

In our small club we do welcome guests BUT they can come and fly on our normal flying sessions or when someone goes flying at other times.

Unrestricted flying would never be allowed by any non member.

Among the usual reasons, we have to go through a locked gate and we do not pass on the combination to anyone.

The landowner and one or two others connected with the farm would ask for membership cards. No card and you are off at once. The field is also monitored in other ways as well.

All this because on one of our previous fields we found that a group of people were flying there on Sunday mornings without permission fot he landowner.

Edited By Peter Miller on 02/10/2012 18:28:34

[Mr Loop2Loop-UK]

I suppose you guys must " hate" lonewolf flyers like myself, i dont fly with clubs no more due to bad attitudes from my last club, dont misunderstand me, i dont hate clubs, but at the same time in my experiance i will never returne to a club again " to much childish attitudes", i have plenty of safe places i can fly and not bother anyone, i have had 30yrs of mostly happy flying, and now that i have converted to leccy, my models are very quite..

L2L

[Dave Bran]

No, in general, we don't hate lone wolf flyers, but we do get upset at irresponsible flyers who bring the whole hobby into disrepute by their actions.

We don't hate guests either, we just control their access to ensure they do not err, and if they are transient, they do not get unmonitored access.

[Mr Loop2Loop-UK]

i agree i dont like the irresponsible flyers either, so giving them some direction instead of a hard time is fairer and better promotion for the hobby, i used to take this hobby serious, but no more, i had my fair share of building scale models and so on, too time consuming for me now, like alot of people here, i just want to build something simple and have fun with it " being Responsible" of course , the imprestion i got " maybe it was just me" in past threads, is that lone flyers are not very welcome and shuned " sorry for my bad spelling " i am a big supporter of this hobby and would hate to see it ruined by some goverment TAX or Rule because of some bad attitude flyers, i did not mean to give off a bad vibe, so to speak, just putting my point forwould.

L2L

[graeme jones]

Alan - I think your last comment was aimed at me. No, I haven't got the wrong idea. Speaking as someone who has in the dim and distant past been a model flying club official I fully understand the problems. I am not suggesting that clubs should allow "unrestricted access" to non-members, and the club trainer at one of my sites is my old HiBoy, which has been flown by several guests and learners over the years. I was simply wondering how some clubs recruit new members. Perhaps they don't want/need to. Makes me think back 50 years and ask myself how I managed on my own with no club to join.

Graeme

[Lee Smalley]

i think some people are getting a bit confused, so i will try to straighten out some things i think people are misinterpreting

there is a distinct difference between guest fliers and prospective members, do not confuse the two

this is not about loan fliers versus club fliers

there are a few people out there that you would not want flying anywhere near your club, and it is them we have to guard against

it is very difficult for councils to ban a single bloke flying on a random field

it is very easy for a council to ban a club flying on their nominated patch, as a result they have to be a tad cautious over allowing people to fly at their patch of who they know very little about, i personally think all clubs should allow guest flyers at the club, but it should be done with the exec committee approval and under supervision of a member and for a limited number of times per year. some of the guest fliers could be really talented and bring some really interesting models that others might want to try!

How about a really top notch scale model, or an svwistF5D electric pylon racer like Andy Es or even my jet! it would certainly give the members loads to talk about !!

[Stephen Grigg]

The only guest Ive seen recently wanted one of us to loan him one of our receivers,he had forgotten to bring one.I explained that a reciver is set up for each particular model but seemed of the opinion that receivers wer £3 and I should give him one of mine.I explained that my £50 Futabe 2.4 wouldnt wirk with his cheap non descript 35mh Tx and he considered me being akward and not letting him fly.Im noe a committee member and wouldnt have been able to give permission anyway.We have a very delicate position with a neighbour 600 metres away who has informed us it is her lifes work to get us thrown off,and we are getting complaints on wet and windy days when noone is flying.Her biggest complait was when a grain dryer was on 24 hours,so with guests at the moment its very difficult not flying where you think you should be able to.

[Bob Cotsford]

Backing up Lee's comments:

In a previous incarnation of a club I belong to, we rented a field from a tenant farmer. Another local club was having difficulties so some of their members were invited along. A couple took this as an open door to fly noisy models that were plainly too large for the site, and to do so at any time they liked without any home club members present.

When we informed them that this wasn't on, one came back later when the site was deserted and practiced donuts across the field in his 4X4.

The vast majority of flyers are ok whether club members or lone wolves, but you have to guard against the loony fringe.

[Ben B]

At our club we fly off council property so we have no rules, no membership, no requirement for insurance etc. It's all a bit crazy. We've formed a BMFA club to try and make things safer but all we can realistically do is chuck someone out of the club- they can still stand next to us and (using their rights under the bye-laws) fly. Until the council changes the bye-law to say anyone flying on the site has to be a member of the BMFA club there's not much we can do. Which is why on some days the flying down there is so bad / dangerous.

We welcome guests with open arms- generally they're visiting from other clubs so will have some in-built rules and regulations compared to our home-brewed nutters. Some of our members only fly on our site because if they tried flying like they do at their nearest club they'd be thrown out within seconds.

I'm just thankful for 2.4Ghz- back in the days of 35Mhz and shoot-downs I bet our club was carnage.

BTW- all the above may sound like I approve of the flying that goes on. Far from it- the next time someone flies over the pits after take-off (at least once per flying session- some do it every single time) I'm going to go and jump up and down on their plane. You would have thought a club member being hospitalised for a week due to being hit on the head by a plane would have woken people up to the dangers of flying like idiots.

Edited By Ben B on 03/10/2012 11:30:38

[Olly P]

OK, My club allows each member to have 3 guest flights per year - these are generally for prospective members, indeed one of my guest fliers from last year has got his A as a full member of the club (before I have....)

As for visiting fliers I don't know as it has never come up - I would like to think we would be welcoming to anyone coming down. I'm sure they would be helpful to members of other clubs, but anyone who isn't a member will need to be accompanied, at least at first!

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

I think most clubs would accept a "guest" member; certainly my own does.....indeed we were very lucky (I think thats the right word...) to have the pleasure of BEB's company when his own field was being "upgraded".

However we must remember that committee members often spend many hours negotiating with land owners & other officials & to see all that effort trashed by one careless flyer who isn't even a member must be a bit galling to say the least....

Ask nicely, be polite & play by the rules & I'm sure most clubs would be very happy to have you. After all, flying at a nicely maintained site that other people may have spent many years building up is a privilege NOT a right....

[slippyr4]

As I see it, there are two types of "guest". There is the prospective new member who wants to evaluate the club's facilities with a mind to perhaps joining - these guests will expect to, and be happy to be accompanied, and indeed to come to visit the club at a time when club officials are in attendance.

The other sort of "guest" is someone like Mark, the original poster in this thread. This kind of guest wants to, in effect, become a temporary member.

The committee of a club are tasked with working in the interests of the members of the club. The club might have restrictions on it from the land owner, or from other countryside users. That club might be sensitive to noise, or be handling complaints from members of the public. That club might be making a planning application, or subject to the terms of a planning consent.

For many clubs, therefore, there is little benefit to the membership, and plenty of risk of a downside, in accepting a temporary member. However, a guest, who flies initially only when accompanied by club officials, and ends up becoming a full member is a) continually supervised, and b) has a vested interest in the longevity of the club.

[Myron Beaumont]

No club ,no rules ,no noise restrictions .Just follow on from the peeps that have been to our farm/camping site & enjoyed their stay .Say no more !

[Jon Laughton]

Posted by Stephen Grigg on 03/10/2012 10:32:32:

The only guest Ive seen recently wanted one of us to loan him one of our receivers,he had forgotten to bring one.I explained that a reciver is set up for each particular model but seemed of the opinion that receivers wer £3 and I should give him one of mine.I explained that my £50 Futabe 2.4 wouldnt wirk with his cheap non descript 35mh Tx and he considered me being akward and not letting him fly.Im noe a committee member and wouldnt have been able to give permission anyway.We have a very delicate position with a neighbour 600 metres away who has informed us it is her lifes work to get us thrown off,and we are getting complaints on wet and windy days when noone is flying.Her biggest complait was when a grain dryer was on 24 hours,so with guests at the moment its very difficult not flying where you think you should be able to.

Stephen you have my sympathies. I cannot understand the kind of person you describe as the lady who is making her life's work to get you thrown off your flying site. Where do these people come from.........? Unfortunately I suspect we all know of people like that - busybodies with too much attitude and insufficient common sense...

Edited By Jon Laughton on 04/10/2012 08:26:05

[Paul Williams]

Posted by kc on 02/10/2012 16:11:17:
The problem is that many of the people wanting a guest flight are people who want to fly models their own club wont allow or want to fly in a way their own clubs dont like.
Therefore they visit and tend to cause complaints which so often lose the flying field. But of course they dont care - it's not their club- they just go somewhere else, then somewhere else.
So club's take the view " no guest flights"

Please, what a narrow minded atitude. Did some one take your sweets when you were young?

I have been following this thread with interest, after a fantastic holiday flying in France this year we were considering what to do in 2013. One suggestion was to canvas clubs around the south coast and offer a fee say towards the site upkeep, we would then hire a cottage or caravan and spend a lovely week flying and meeting fellow like minded guys. There is no one in our party of modellers that would even consider unwanted behaviour. Like when we travelled to France we would enquire about club rules size of models ect and keep within the guide lines. Dont tar all with the same brush if you have had a bad issue with a guest.

[Greybeard]

Paul, I’m not sure that it is a case of “tar all with the same brush” more a case that it is simpler to say “No” than take a risk with a valuable flying site. The up-side of such an arrangement is a few extra pounds in the club account whilst the down-side is the loss of a flying site, so it’s generally not a difficult decision to make.

[Paul Williams]

I can see your point but 300 quid or more for a weeks use of a flying field could be very useful for some clubs struggling in hard times. We very rarely get visitors to our field probaly because the access involves a lenthy walk. Yet we still have problems with members disregarding rules and flying restrictions. My point being its not the visitors that are the problem, if you are of such a character no doubt you will behave in such a manner and simply wait till your field is vacant. I feel it a shame to have to travel abroad because of such an attitude. It would be interesting to conduct a pole of how many offensives have been committed by members and compare it with visitors. I doubt the visiting team would be in the same ball park. I disagree also the money is the only upside, to meet fellow modellers and see other aircraft flying is a big part of our hobby maybe we should stop having flyins and club events incase the bad men come.

[Allan Bennett]

Yes, club members may sometimes contravene the rules. But at least one then has available the ultimate sanction of having the Committee strip them of their membership.

The club I fly at has no fixed limit on the number of guest flights, but it does insist that they are only permitted when a Committee member is present, because it's the club, not the guest, that's going to have to respond if any kind of complaint is received. If a guest appears too often, someone will suggest to him that £25 membership is not too great a burden.

[Greybeard]

Paul, the clubs that I have approached for membership will not allow prospective members to fly unsupervised, so I assume that would apply to visitors as well. It follows that a club member has to be in attendance when non-members are on the field which is fine for an organised event but possibly impractical for casual visitors.