Guest Flying at your Club ? Yes or No?

[Mark Stringer]

Hi all - me yet again looking for places to fly whilst on my travels.

In Bedford for a couple of weeks and struggling due to club rules in general not allowing more than 3 flights per year or just not wanting guests at all (will be writing to RCM&E letters section about this!)

I am happy to pay on a pro rate basis (i.e. as i only have 6 evenings left down here i really don't want to pay for a full years membership!)

I see the Ivel Club on the BMFA site but no details and their site link doesn't work. Found another link but it has names but no contact details and most links not working.

If anyone knows if they are up and running and a contact please let me know.

PS - I have already tried Twinwood and Chiltern Clubs and no joy (3 day max accompanied and full membership and NO Guests respectively)

Also tried the Bedford & District no no reply yet (unless my spam filter has eaten the reply again!)

Thanks all

Mark Stringer

Ratby Aeroplanes

[Mark Stringer]

In case this sounds partly like moaning can i just say a BIG thank you to the Colchester Model Aero Club and the Slough Club - both brilliant and very welcoming - thanks guys!

[Andy B]

Hi

Just to clarify, we explained the club rules AND our landlords rules per visitors. We always welcome visitors however, to not risk loosing our flying site we have to stick to the landowners rules. We were therefore unable to allow an unknown - to us - pilot, use of our field unsupervised for 2 weeks.

Therefore, quite a harsh comment above. I am sure other clubs would feel the same if their field agreement was to be put at risk.

Regards

TMAC

[Alan Cantwell]

Quite reasonable, you dont know the standard of the flyer, i would not expect our club to allow a visitor unsupervised, and i would not care if he was Ali Machinsky, we welcome visitors, and would allow more than 3 flights if he was a visitor, but if he was local, after 3 flights, an exchange of sheckles would be expected

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I find this a bit surprising. True some clubs do have restrictions as a result of their tenancy agreement with the landlord - and their approach is understandable. But for the majority of clubs the situation should really be more open - it certainly is at my club!

As far as I understand it the "three occassions" rule really applies because of insurance conditions. Its was intended to allow a new member (who was not otherwise insured) the ability to "try a club and the hobby out" and see if they wanted to go on.

We were recently approached by a chap who would be working in our area and asking if he could use our flying field. The first question we ask in such cases is "Do you have at least an A certificate?" and the second question is "Are you a current BMFA member with insurance or do you have evidence of insurance from another source?" If the answer to these two questions is "yes" - which it was in the case of the chap in question - then all we ask is that you turn up at the field, show your A cert and insurance. We would then advise of the "local rules" e'g. no fly zones etc.Then ask you to take a quick flight with one of our examiners watching just so we can be sure you really are of A-cert standard or above, and then away you go.

Obviously if the visit was going to be of more than, say, a couple of weeks yes we would ask for a pro-rata membership fee, buit if it was just a short stay we'd do it on a "good will to another flyer" basis.

So Mark, if you have an A-cert and insurance I'm at a bit of a loss, tenancy agreements to one side, to understand why clubs are invoking the "three day" rule with you?

BEB

[Greybeard]

Setting aside the 3 day “fly and try” BMFA insurance rule, it seems reasonable to allow access to a club field to a visiting BMFA flyer, however I too would be very wary of allowing unrestricted access by a stranger because fields are hard to find but easily lost. I suppose that to a great extent the decision would depend on the sensitivity of the site.

[Wingman]

Allow a stranger 2 weeks unsupervised used of our field? - Absolutely not - they wouldn't have to suffer the consequences if they did something anti-social e.g. noisy flying in the evening.

Guests are welcome but only if accompanied by a member.

Pro-rata payment? Fine but it would be one third of the annual membership fee per day (£20 per day in our case) otherwise you would have the problem of people just paying for the odd day that they fly to save joining but being able to enjoy the ammenity without contributing (e.g. grass cutting)

Anyway Mark seems to run a company - Ratby Aeroplanes - so he could pay a membership fee at any club he uses and then reclaim the costs from the taxman as a business expense thereby allowing the taxman to contribute to the health of the model aeroplane clubs

[Mark Stringer]

"Anyway Mark seems to run a company - Ratby Aeroplanes - so he could pay a membership fee at any club he uses and then reclaim the costs from the taxman as a business expense thereby allowing the taxman to contribute to the health of the model aeroplane clubs" - LOL!

Ratby hasn't been trading for several years now - just a hobby - certainly never enough to have the taxman involved!

Just to clarify some other points ... I am a BMFA member and a B certificate holder .. I only ever fly electic models when working away, so always quiet. I totally expect to have my BMFA membership checked out and to be seen flying before being let loose on anyones site, as well as being shown the ground rules, no fly zones etc.

I am also happy to be accompanied but have found that many sites seem to have very few flyers, if any, in the evenings.

I am not trying to wind anyone up here or cause any issues - I fly because i love flying - it is my break from a very stressful life as an IT consultant - I do not have "loads of money" and there is no way I could affordto pay £20 per day to fly at someone site.

Maybe I am missing something here but there is such a wide difference between sites that i have visitied - some extremely welcoming, some not.

During my visit to the Bedford / Luton area I know, due to what I fly, that I could go and fly with the lads at Wrest Park, and have done so on a couple of occasions - no club, no rules etc and the council seem happy for the guys to fly their parkflyers there - but I choose not to do that as i prefer to do things properly and fly at a regulated club and enjoy the company and safety that that brings.

I appreciate that I am unknown to such clubs and fully expect to be checked out but do always make it clear ahead of my visit that I do hold BMFA insurance and a B certificate and am only flying electic models when travelling.

I would love to not travel and to have a very local club that fitted in with my very hectic life and very limited free time but neither is the case unfortunately - to fulfil my love of model flying and to share that with others (which i have done for the last 33 years) but sometimes I just feel like giving up!

Again, a big thankyou to the Colchester and Slough clubs and also to the other clubs that have welcomed me only to be beaten off by the weather during my travels.

[Alan Cantwell]

my caution i can easily explain, 2 flyers showed up at the oldham club once, both had crescent bullets, both could fly well, and both flew within club rules, so, they where allowed to fly unsupervised, we began to get reports of 2 lunatics flying with total disrespect to club members, and fing and jeffing at the ones who objected, yes, it was these 2, so they where asked to vacate, they where working in the area for 3 weeks, never again was the cry!!!

[Mark Stringer]

Alan
Totally understand that one - they should have been stripped of their BMFA membership too!
The UK needs modellers and to inspire youngsters but resect is everything!
And I do understand that I am an unknown so I guess that is the issue - B cert or not - it is just the variation between clubs but maybe that is due to their experiences, although I was not an unknown to the one club and had flown with them before.
Oh well - will just have to reflect on the future and maybe just fly when I get chance at home - just that I get more time for flying when I am working away!

[Mark Stringer]

Another thought ... a National Club Membership ... governed by the BMFA and BMFA registered clubs have the option of being involved or not.

The membership fee is done on a reasonable per visit cost working on a pay as you fly basis which is then forwarded to each club according to its usage - maybe on a monthly basis

Members would need to be checked out at each local club before they can fly there and sign the clubs contract to ensure they understand all of the clubs rules and regs, no fly zones etc.

Any breach of any regs and your membership is suspended / withdrawn

That could encourage visitors and inter-club contact to broaden the horizon of everyone involved as well as topping up clubs funds.

As a National scheme it would then be uniform across all involved clubs making flying as a visitor a smoother process

Perhaps open to A or B cert holders only to guarantee the standard of flying

Just a thought?

[Paul Marsh]

Our club has a reasonable vetting procedure - only allowing "known" members and supervised until checked out.
The reason for this a few years ago, a very famous model flyer (mentioning no names) who I know, and I'm ok with him. However he was in this club, at the other field and used to fly large noisy models at all times, without due regard to safety or concience.

One weekend, he invited (no permission) to have a weekend fly-in, and had a dozen caravans and non-members just fly. So-much-so, the farmer saw it and practically blew his lid! Worse is that is was happening without the club say, and that was the end of that field - get off!!!

As a result, we keep it low-key and don't disclose our new location to anyone, if we can...

[Mark Stringer]

This is great! - a debate that i was keen to be aired (although that is not what this thread was aimed at!)

So please - all club officals please chip in - I would love to know the feelings of clubs around the country on this topic - Guests or No Guests and what requirements / restrictions / rules apply to such guest flying

Keep it coming please - facinating to get all of th eviews and experiences.

Thanks All

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Title tweaked to better reflect this thread discussion.

Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 02/10/2012 10:26:37

[cymaz]

Mark, if you are down in Cornwall bring your BMFA ticket along and you will be made most welcome on a Saturday. Someone will keep an eye on things.

Here

Edited By cymaz on 02/10/2012 10:39:21

[Mark Stringer]

Cymaz - thanks for that - David has kindly changed the title for me as an interesting debate seems to have started and I thiught it would be good to gets the range of opinion around the country
I usually seek clubs when working away so just fly in the evenings Monday to Thursday (nights have closed in now so no more this year!) But if I am down your way on holiday I will be sure to drop in.
I have been amazed at how little use club fields seem to get in the evenings, even during the summer
Thanks again

[Jon Laughton]

Just a note from the Oldham club referred to above...

Alan Cantwell is a former member and does not speak on behalf of the current club committee. I cannot comment on the circumstances Alan has described as I was not a member at the time but clearly the club took the correct approach then and given the same circumstances the action taken would be repreated now.

As the current Oldham chairman I should point out that we will always give visitors a hearty welcome - one such is Martin Bedding a regular contributor to RCME in the past. Of course we would want to verify a model pilots credentials / capability but the issue of pro-rata membership fees being paid has not come up at our club. In truth & in practice I cannot see someone being asked to pay that if it was for a few weeks only...

Regrettably right now the abysmal weather has temporarily suspended all flying from our main site as it is totally waterlogged and has been mistreated by some errant motorcyclists...aaargh!

[Delta Whiskey]

At the famous KPMFC as it's on the Jockey Clubs land you as a member would be issued with a gate key and barrier swipe card so we allow 3 flying visits as a guest as you would have to be accompanied by an member to gain access anyhow, as mentioned it's probably a club rule due to legal reasons, but also because if a lot of members brought along guests, then those paying members would not only see their flying slots per session used up but also see visitors having free flying when they have paid out !

After 3 visits we expect them to become a full member if space allows (we are currently full) and therfore go on the waiting list.

[Mark Stringer]

Great feedback - keep it coming - I guess I was getting more at people visiting the area rather than members bringing friends along

[kc]

The problem is that many of the people wanting a guest flight are people who want to fly models their own club wont allow or want to fly in a way their own clubs dont like.
Therefore they visit and tend to cause complaints which so often lose the flying field. But of course they dont care - it's not their club- they just go somewhere else, then somewhere else.
So club's take the view " no guest flights"

[Lee Smalley]

sort of on Alans side here, sadly we will always get people who take the mickey, and ruin it for others, we have had people come down and fly as a guest for 3 or 4 times and then never see them again when asked to join or pay their way, our members pay a fair chunk of money for the facilities at TMFC and as such they are reluctant to let anyone fly there more than once or twice without paying, " why should i pay for them to fly free" is often the remark i hear! and to be honest i do see this side of the argument, we have just set in place a maximum of 3 visits in any one year before financial payments need to be asked for, the guest has to had his request to visit put by the exec commitee and okay'd

the person will then have to fly under supervision (and the level of that supervision will depend on the pilots ability and understanding of the rules)

[graeme jones]

How do clubs with a "no guest flights" rule enforce it?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by graeme jones on 02/10/2012 16:23:22:

How do clubs with a "no guest flights" rule enforce it?

That would depend on the club's circumstances.

A lot of clubs on private land have the gate padlocked - members have a key.

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/10/2012 16:35:35

[graeme jones]

When looking around for an alternative to my usual (private) site some ten years ago, I visited the two nearest clubs. One was very unfriendly and would not allow me to fly as a guest. The other made me welcome and suggested I fly as a guest before I asked. Guess which one I joined (and have been a member of ever since)?

[Dave Bran]

Posted by Mark Stringer on 01/10/2012 10:12:08:Ratby hasn't been trading for several years now - just a hobby - certainly never enough to have the taxman involved!

MMM........ Tongue in cheek time...........and yet the name was used as a footer to the original post.......for what purpose? To promote the professional image of the poster? To make him seem important, someone to be considered?

Mark, you ask for feedback, etc.............well, not having a go at YOU per se, but inadvertently or not, you have exampled the sort of subtle and not so subtle leverage which sadly is not untypical of what clubs get from people they do not know wanting freebies, favours, maybe even rule bending sometimes, call it what you will.

I was a club chairman for 25 years, not an RC flying club, but that does not matter, it was a similar hobby/sporting situation with risks of loss of the club facilities in toto if abuse occured. You would not believe the yarns, spin, and downright lies some were prepared to state as fact to try to get what they wanted. Even forged documents.

IMO it's a very brave club which allows people it does not know well enough to use facilities it cannot afford to lose.

I'm a member of a Derbyshire/Staffordshire based flying group. I live in Kent and so do not get there very much, but while I was kindly offered on my first contact when going that way free and unrestricted use of their private sites, I declined and joined them as a member.

The way I see it a club needs and should be given the confidence of commitment.

"Guests", no matter how professional or experienced the claim, do not give that unless an existing long term person inside the club can vouch for that person.