Mass Build 2013 The Shortlist - time to vote!

[WolstonFlyer]

Why not, it would give new builders (like me) an idea of what can be done.

[Ian Jones]

Posted by MikeS on 07/10/2012 10:53:39:

Well I have a Whizzza that I built last year so the Tucano is my preferred build.

Just been reading the rules for the build sooooo increasing the plan size, beefing up the stress areas, fitting retracts and a RCV fs is a little over the top...

I would think that as long as the you start with the agreed plan and the resulting model remains recognisable as such that you have a free hand.

[kc]

I have just found a section of the Vortex Vacform website which shows the 45 inch Tucano canopy for 5 pounds or complete with pilots & cockpit interior at 9 pounds ( plus 1.65 post ) which sounds a fair deal. Look for the BVR heading on Vortex.

[Phil Winks]

Well found Kc for others trying to find it here's the link

**LINK**

Phil

[IAN EDGE]

as i am new to this model building i wont be taking part but cant wait for it to start, the previous two i have read looked great and inspired me to look for plans instead of a kit, good luck to all participants

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Ian, if you are new to model building you're exactly the sort of guy who should be considering giving the Mass Build a go.

These models have been selected to be straight forward to build - easier than the vintage build last year - and some (the Tucano and the Whizzza for example) are easier than even the Webbit. Also of course, as you will have seen, you'll be able to "watch over the shoulder" of more experienced forumites.

So consider it carefully - this could be your best chance for a first build experience.

BEB

[Ian Jones]

I have an SC32 doing nothing - would that be overkill in the Tucano... Nigel?

[Nigel Hawes]

I believe the late great Ken Swailes used a .32 in his i.c. converted Tucano and it went very well, only suffering looks-wise from the ugly cylinder head / exhaust and small prop at the front.

The Tucano, as with most electric models, benefits greatly from being able to use a large prop on a relatively small motor which is very efficient in comparison to its i.c. equivalent.

Even on geared can motors we used props of 12" diameter which gave unlikely performance for meagre wattage figures! So i.c. conversions work fine on the model but having flown both I have to say the electric power delivery is far superior.

Of course this wouldn't be a biased opinion by any means!

[Ian Jones]

Thanks Nigel. I suspect a 25 would be more suitable but with a 32 in hand.... I may do a slope version too.

[Piers Bowlan]

Just ordered one of these Ian. I know it is only a .15 but Nigel's Tucano has an AUW of about 50oz/1400g (about half the weight of a Fun Fighter) so I thought the .15 might be enough. The 'Hornet' weighs only 150g which could be a good thing as the Tucano has a long nose moment. Incidentally the AXI 2820/10 weighs 160g plus the ESC of course. At least a Lipo can be positioned where necessary to achieve the correct c of g. I haven't built a glow model for about 30 years!

I think with your SC 32 it will go like a rocket.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

We like rockets!

BEB

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Piers Bowlan on 10/10/2012 23:10:44:

Just ordered one of these Ian. I know it is only a .15 but Nigel's Tucano has an AUW of about 50oz/1400g (about half the weight of a Fun Fighter) so I thought the .15 might be enough. The 'Hornet' weighs only 150g which could be a good thing as the Tucano has a long nose moment. Incidentally the AXI 2820/10 weighs 160g plus the ESC of course. At least a Lipo can be positioned where necessary to achieve the correct c of g. I haven't built a glow model for about 30 years!

I think with your SC 32 it will go like a rocket.

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/10/2012 00:34:17:

We like rockets!

BEB

Yes we do!

Also since my AP15 struggled to pull my 44 ozs Webbit around I wasn't really think of using that engine so I'll be really interested to know how that turns out Piers. It's a neat little engine that could well make a neat job of the Tucano. In it's favour is that I think the Tucano will be a lot less "draggy".

Edited By Ian Jones on 11/10/2012 01:08:35

[Nigel Hawes]

There's little doubt a Tucano built light enough will fly on an AP.15, but don't expect anything spectacular when it comes to performance! A .25 is probably the best all-round i.c. size for this model, if i.c. is your thing.

C of G is seldom a problem with either i.c. or electric power as the nose is pretty long and you always have your RX battery to help.

With any version, balsa grade selection is always important, so if the Tucano wins the vote, it would be advisable to stock up on some really soft, light sheet as the difference it can make is unbelievable.

[Ian Jones]

Is harder balsa used for the wings Nigel?

[Nigel Hawes]

Only the leading edge; this helps avoid the panel looking like a saw blade after a few flights! Everything else should be the lightest, softest balsa you can find, with the exception perhaps for the fin and tailplane which need to be medium grade for stiffness.

Sadly when you pick up a really soft, light sheet of balsa, it's ever so easy to think "this will never be strong enough for the job" but you have to remember that the strength of most models is in the design, not the materials!

Film covering also affords much surface tension to the finished model and this is often underestimated so never be afraid to use really soft, light balsa - the benefits are extremely significant.

[Piers Bowlan]

Posted by Ian Jones

Also since my AP15 struggled to pull my 44 ozs Webbit around I wasn't really think of using that engine so I'll be really interested to know how that turns out Piers. It's a neat little engine that could well make a neat job of the Tucano. In it's favour is that I think the Tucano will be a lot less "draggy".

Thanks for that Ian, very helpful. Perhaps your Webbit was a tad less dragy once you had dropped the ordnance!

IC is not really 'my thing' Nigel as I have been methanol free for about thirty years now! Personally I blame that man Whittaker and all his talk of 'live fuel engines' and the 'smell of burnt Nitro in the morning'. It's a nostalgia thing really; flicking a recalcitrant Cox BB engine with frozen fingers in the days of my youth. I thought, putting an AP Hornet in your Tucano would exorcise these deviant longings and make me a clean living 'all electric' man again!

On a more serious note Nigel, I am with you on, (to paraphrase) 'Putting a large prop on a small electric motor being more efficient than IC'

[Nigel Hawes]

Thanks Piers, I'm very relieved that you're with me on that!

Personally I'm a firm believer in having fun with model aircraft any which way, and with whatever power source - and the fact that all 5 models in the shortlist can probably use both i.c. and electric will only serve to increase the number of participants in the eventual mass build.

I still have dozens of i.c. engines from many years ago; if I were to go and start one someday it would probably be the Boddo Mills .75 diesel I bought from David shortly before he died, God rest his soul - electric flight was most certainly not "his thing" but what a huge miss he is.

When my 4-year-old son Liam is old enough to appreciate its history, we'll get some disesl fuel and go and start it in David's memory. Something to look forward to!

[Myron Beaumont]

Yeah

We all know that electric power is the future in most modes of transport propulsion.Steam engines are long gone but there's a whole lot of people still remember and continue to rebuild and enjoy keeping them alive . I won't be around forever but there will always be enthusiasts to keep the next generation interested.Maybe one day our Tucanos will be powered by turbo prop model engines . The real ones fly down our valley twice a week and they waveback &/or do a left to right twitch of their wings when we wave our arms about . I will build an ic powered one but I'd prefer a 50 'ish to 60'ish sized version 'cos I have several engines around that size .

[Piers Bowlan]

Nigel, did you ever publish a plan of your 54in span Channel crossing Tucano. If not, what about doing it now, either through MyHobbyStore or as a RCM&E pull out plan. I would think it would be very popular being so quick to build and a better size for todays IC lubbers. Also, the increased popularity of larger electric set ups these days, as a consequence of greater choice and lower prices would make it equally appealing to many. Just a thought.

The last model aircraft engine I flew was not a glow but an ED Racer RC diesel that, incidentally, throttled rather well. Quiet too. We don't need an excuse to dig out our old engines and reminisce!

[Nigel Hawes]

Hi Piers,

Shortly after the cross-channel flight I did ponder on drawing up the 54" Tucano plan, but it seemed a bit of overkill considering the 30" and 45" versions had already had a good run and shared the same design philosophy.

That said, I still have the Dover to Sangatte mode in my shedl, so a few evenings of C.A.D. (which in my case stands for Child Ability Drawing) would probably see it done.

If I may say so it is a more representative model than the 45" version; I was always disappointed with the wing shape and sometimes wondered if it was only recognisable as a Tucano by its colourscheme!

But there's plenty of time. First priority when I fully recover from my back injury will be to draw up the free plan canard design, and naturally join the mass build, with whichever design wins.

If demand for the larger Tucano exists and our editor approves it, I'd have no problem drawing it up. It does fly extremely well , best of the three I'd have to say - and has a duration of up to 2 hours with a kilogram of Li-Pos on board!

 

Edited By Nigel Hawes on 11/10/2012 19:08:53

Edited By Nigel Hawes on 11/10/2012 19:09:17

[Piers Bowlan]

We all wish you a speedy and full recovery Nigel. Your magazine articles and your simple, economical but effective designs have been inspirational to many like myself, at a time when electric flight was 'alternative' and a minority interest. Now of course it is big business.

Here is looking forward to your canard design Nigel and I do hope the editor looks favourably on a larger Tucano plan in the fullness of time. TN scale warbird designs and such like are popular but I am sure in terms of sheer numbers built your simple Whizza and Tucano are in a different league.

Anyway I have got my Tucano canopy on order from Vortex Vacforms regardless of the 'mass build' vote, all I have to do now is decide, glow or electric? It should be a no brainer!

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 12/10/2012 05:20:35

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Piers Bowlan on 11/10/2012 10:43:40:

Posted by Ian Jones

Also since my AP15 struggled to pull my 44 ozs Webbit around I wasn't really think of using that engine so I'll be really interested to know how that turns out Piers. It's a neat little engine that could well make a neat job of the Tucano. In it's favour is that I think the Tucano will be a lot less "draggy".

Thanks for that Ian, very helpful. Perhaps your Webbit was a tad less dragy once you had dropped the ordnance!

<Snip>

Yes it was a pig until the prop unloaded and I was always happier after I'd pressed the bomb release.

[Phil Winks]

Have we got a time table for the final day of voting I wonder as the vote numbers seem to have plateau'd and it would be nice to have a start date for the build so I can be certain to have my bench cleared. well actually I still have to make the bench lol

Phil

[IanH]

As well as Phil's question above as to when it starts, how long does it/can it run for? I'd like to take part but don't see myself as being in a position to do so before the new year. Will that be too late??

With money tight at the mo with house move on the horizon, am also looking forward to seeing who comes up with the best budget electric set-up for the winning design.

This could be the perfect project to christen my new workshop with once moved

[Phil Winks]

Good luck with the move Ian Having just completed one ourselves you have my sympathy! thats why my work bench needs building 1st lol

Phil