Christopher Mayers Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hi Folks, You can probably guess i am new to electric flying by the question that follows. I have just taken delivery of a new brusless motor and ESC. The motor has 3 x Black wires coming from it and the ESC has 3 x blue wires coming from it. Is there any way of determening which wires conect from the ESC to the Motor or does it not matter as long as each one is conected to another. The ESC is a Robotbirds Pro-40A-V4 and the Motor is an EMAX BL2815/09 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hi there, just connect them and if the motor rotates the wrong direction just swap any two of the three wires over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 hello chris.......do as above...But with the prop off the motor....until you are happy with your set up.......watch your finger's........ ken anderson ne..1 carol singer's(fingers) ...dept.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mayers Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks very much. I will just connect all 3 and then work ot the right direction. Just didnt want to fry a new motor and ESC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Chris - take special note of Ken's comments - do this without the prop on the motor otherwise it can lead to a nasty accident. Like you I came to electric after being 100% IC - it takes time to get used to the fact that just becuase its silent doesn't mean it wont fire up the instant you move the throttle stick! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/12/2012 13:01:11: Chris - take special note of Ken's comments - do this without the prop on the motor otherwise it can lead to a nasty accident. Like you I came to electric after being 100% IC - it takes time to get used to the fact that just becuase its silent doesn't mean it wont fire up the instant you move the throttle stick! BEB And unlike IC it doesn't stop just because you've put your digits in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tee Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 When I've had to work the connections out as above I usually add my own colour coding to the wires so that if I have to disconnect them it saves having to work it out again, Only need to do two out of the three really as the other pair are obvious. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 What ever is said, the motor will stop, there may be smoke arising from the ESC. It will stop though. I do check with a prop on, I see no issue doing this. That is recognising that the motor will start to rotate when the throttle is opened. It just means you arm the system, from well behind the propeller, with the model secured. Even if the throttle is open, this is not the end of the world, as some would have it. All modern ESC I have used in recent times just sit there, complaining, until you close the throttle. Like many safety features, do not abuse the facility, it is a safeguard. If the throttle is opened and the propeller is not free to rotate, the ESC will complain again, the propeller will oscillate, trying to get the timing. Again do not abuse the safeguard. It is what happens though. Incidentally, if you then allow free movement, the motor will be away running, so beware The major problem I have come across where the start up sequences have all been done, is when the model comes to ground and the throttle has been left open. The esc, lipo and motor all rapidly overheat, which can result in a fire. Only seen it the once. For some reason, the dangers are often overstated with electric models. Most model electric motors just do not have the power to keep going when stalled, they may draw a very high current as they attempt to keep going, to date, I have seen that the weak link is the ESC, which cannot supply the current. Also, initially the dangers of Lipos was vastly overstated, with tales of Lipos exploding, creating a black hole and the universe potentially being sucked into the result. Just note, I am talking low power, up to the region of 200w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The answer of course ( as is often the case ) has been HERE all the time Edited By Tim Mackey on 13/12/2012 17:39:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Pollard Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Coming up as cannot be found Tim ??? Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ok here garry ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 And here. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn R Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Posted by Erfolg on 13/12/2012 16:50:57: What ever is said, the motor will stop, there may be smoke arising from the ESC. It will stop though. I do check with a prop on, I see no issue doing this. That is recognising that the motor will start to rotate when the throttle is opened. It just means you arm the system, from well behind the propeller, with the model secured. Even if the throttle is open, this is not the end of the world, as some would have it. All modern ESC I have used in recent times just sit there, complaining, until you close the throttle. Like many safety features, do not abuse the facility, it is a safeguard. If the throttle is opened and the propeller is not free to rotate, the ESC will complain again, the propeller will oscillate, trying to get the timing. Again do not abuse the safeguard. It is what happens though. Incidentally, if you then allow free movement, the motor will be away running, so beware The major problem I have come across where the start up sequences have all been done, is when the model comes to ground and the throttle has been left open. The esc, lipo and motor all rapidly overheat, which can result in a fire. Only seen it the once. For some reason, the dangers are often overstated with electric models. Most model electric motors just do not have the power to keep going when stalled, they may draw a very high current as they attempt to keep going, to date, I have seen that the weak link is the ESC, which cannot supply the current. Also, initially the dangers of Lipos was vastly overstated, with tales of Lipos exploding, creating a black hole and the universe potentially being sucked into the result. Just note, I am talking low power, up to the region of 200w The modern larger models with EP are if anything more dangerous than IC. My Acrowot with an 1100 watt motor will take lumps off your fingers and it won't stop unlike the 53 glow that was in the model previously. My latest venture with a 1500 watt motor is even more scary. Treat it as about to start all the time the battery is in the model. I agree about the dangers of Lipos, I have not yet had a problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Pollard Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Fine now this end Tim, thanks, Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As with many things, you need to be objective and compare like with like. A 1cc diesel is not the same as a 90cc Moki. It is the same with a electrics, your 1100w being similar to a Moki both knocking out in the region of !kw. I would not advocate sticking any part of me near either. Which is the more dangerous? I do not think it is contentious to argue there is no need to go near the propeller arc with an electric. No fuel adjustments to make, with some glo engines, no glow connector to disconnect, no need to start it via the propeller. My main issue, is when checking propeller rotation, it is sensible to have the propeller on. You need to secure the model and ensure that all lipo connections are well to the rear of the propeller arc. With an electric, it is not difficult to arrange. As many modellers I have been caught by small diesels in my youth. In my case, skinning a knuckle adjusting the jet. I have seen others get caught adjusting the tommy bar. Yet my memorable image is a fellow modeller rearranging his hand , taking a glo clip off a engine whilst running. Off course we are now talking abour a 60 OS. What did shock me, I saw simiar occurrences at least 3 times, thankfully, not as disastrous I personally am not even happy about connecting anything above 3s, never mind the voltages and ampage of the Lipos you will be using. In short, I would baulk at the motors and batteries. Requiring a wholly different operating regime to my 200w models. I do feel strongly that some of the statements about motors continuing etc, are based on what we learnt at college, with respect to large industrial machines. What happens with a 3v, brushed motor is quite different. attempts to link the two, are erroneous. what happens is quite different just because of the relative power and supply systems etc. We need to consider each group of sizes (what ever they me be) and have an operating system which is appropriate to the true potential, not a blanket approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Personally Erfolg I prefer a single safety regime to apply accross all my models. Always taking the prop off while testing is so simple, I'd rather stick to doing that than get in a mess by having different procedures for different sizes. Stick to one "best practice" and it becomes automatic, which in turn can save a nasty accident with something bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Do we have a single procedure for starting a CL Team Racer as a RC palne? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 If I am at home & testing for direction of rotation I always remove (if it's already fitted) the prop. As much to avoid it blowing/sucking any loose light objects or paper etc that's close by as for safety. Since Christopher is a newby to electric flight it might also be worth mentioning that if he has a Futaba Tx he will probably need to reverse the throttle. Edited By PatMc on 14/12/2012 00:00:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 At some point you need to have the prop on if wishing to confirm rotation. I would be very surprised if anyone just trusted to observation, of a none to distinct plain object, to decide if rotation is as required, before going to the field. There are some very important checks to be made before getting to the field, which require a propeller. The first is checking the watts etc drawn. The second i like to know are the revs. Patmac made a very important point, which is relevant at all stages in my opinion. There must not be anything to either be drawn into the propeller, or blown about by the propeller. I guess some of these points seem to slip the tick box approach, that is thankfully being discouraged by even the DSE. That is the model must be secured, to ensure that movement is not possible, which ever way the propeller rotates. As noted by patmac, nothing should be loose, particularly in a way that could become hazardous. The working area should be free of any hazardous which could compromise safety. When working on the model to arm, take measurement and operate in general, must all be from behind the propeller arc ensuring that there is no need to be in the vicinity of the propeller. I tend to do all the checks in one session. Including setting the throttle range. I set up to do this. My set up reflects if it is an indoor model, a 200w sports model with no UC, with a UC, or a glider etc. I consider the issues before doing anything and set up to carry out safely all operations. A point made to me when I was a project manager by one of accessors (Head of Department, a friend) of procedures, was there are many ways of achieving the same objective. It is seldom that there is one correct way, although some may think there is, their way. Your skill is to ensure that your procedures,achieve what you want, are not proscriptive that they are unwieldily, hinder the job, and are fit for purpose. My staff, love burecracy, a set of tick boxes. It enables them to either find fault or demonstrate their involvement easily. We are not interested in that there is actually a project to complete. Edited By Erfolg on 15/12/2012 13:09:26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boots Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Many years ago I had a mishap with a paw 1cc diesel, went to A&E had stiches and scar on wrist to prove it. thinking it was one of the first 1cc paw's supplied with a carburator. I do understand we live in a world of extreme caution and fear of being sued for anything but surely most people realise sticking your finger in a running prop is a bad idea and if you do it then you only do it once !!!!! huh try a davies charlton diesel with starting spring, ouch, ouch and ouch again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Posted by PatMc on 13/12/2012 23:59:26: If I am at home & testing for direction of rotation I always remove (if it's already fitted) the prop. As much to avoid it blowing/sucking any loose light objects or paper etc that's close by as for safety. Since Christopher is a newby to electric flight it might also be worth mentioning that if he has a Futaba Tx he will probably need to reverse the throttle. Edited By PatMc on 14/12/2012 00:00:47 Couldn't agree more, Pat. If nothing else, setting up an electric power system is considerably less fraught without a propeller fitted. Once I've done the initial settings I fit aprop, restrain the model on the workshop floor (I use an upturned stool with foam taped to the legs to hold the model) and check the current draw and power consumption. If necessary I change the prop as required. I know an electric will stop going round (usually) when the propeller meets a substantial block like bone but it will continue to push hard until the smoke comes out of either the motor or the esc. That is different from an ic engine which simply stop applying force At the field, I always do a range check with the motor on. On Tuesday I was hoping to test fly my remotored Sonata E glider but there was some interaction between motor and other controls so I didn't. I suspect the cheap esc because even the 35Mhz Schulz receiver didn't cure it. I can feel a new FsSky 4 channel receiver coming on. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasaforumite Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Isn't easier just to disconnect the battery before changing the wires round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ian - yes, but when actually spinning up to check the rotation if the prop is off then there is no chance of a mis-hap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ian I would always disconnect the battery before doing anything on the model. Particularly switching wires. For me a no brainer. As for range checking, i would leave the propeller on and do, as all club members do. You must always ensure that you are well clear of the propeller however. In addition, if the motor were to start, it is something you should be prepared for, as any other part of system glitching. It has been strongly suggested, that as part of testing an electric (on 2.4), that the Tx is switched off. This is to simulate, a glitch or going out of range. When switched off, the motor should shut down (low throttle) and the control surfaces go typically to neutral. Edited By Erfolg on 21/12/2012 14:26:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10 lover/clive Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 put a bit of masking tape on the shaft to help checking rotation and IT don't HURT Edited By 10 lover/clive on 21/12/2012 19:02:39 Edited By 10 lover/clive on 21/12/2012 19:04:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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