Classic Aerobatic Model Photo Thread

[terry westrop]

Yes Martin, we all were rather different back then! Fashions change, time changes us & model design changes too.

Mark Redsell was a superb pilot, had potential to be up with the best in the world. I used the same flying site as he, RAF Upwood, so could see just what he could do. I was just starting out in aeros @ that time. As you say, he won the Nat's then vanished. He did write me a few years ago asking about Freestyle I recall. So I think he's still around the UK somewhere. Be great to see him taking up classic aeros.

Dave Hardaker & the 77 Nat's winning Lightning.....? That'd be something to see & a true classic also!

[David Davis]

This is my DSM Smart Move powered by an OS 61 SF. I was given this model by a man who bought a Telemaster plan from me and I flew it last week. Shame that the cowl wasn't fitted when I took the photograph.

Very impressed, can't wait to fly it again.

PS. That Pete Watson's a lucky chap.

[steve jones 7]

Nice to se the post from Dave Hardaker. He was my inspiration when I was struggling with cheap radio gear and lack of help. (there's no such thing as cheap radio gear - I finally submitted and bought Skyleader - never looked back). A long, long time ago I was up on Baildon moor and Dave was flying there, it was the field by the farm, which soon after became forbidden territory for flying. I think it might have been a Kwik fly or something similar - we used to call that layout 'A Shovel' in Hanworth Airpark MAC. Dave had a mate with him who had a big dog - maybe a setter. Dave astounded me by flying in circles about 20 ft in diameter or less, and about 6 ft above the dog's head, while they (dog and aeroplane) were 20 or 30 yards away. Couldn't believe it!

Years before, when I was a kid still messing about with rubber power and the Veron Cardinal, I watched Stewart Uwins fly his Uproar and then, while watching an unknown bloke flying his single channel Junior 60 lookalike, I was privileged to see the 'Dalesman' being practice flown by it's original team. On another day I saw the Mercury Aeronca with it's radio PC board complete with valve suspended on 4 elastic bands inside the cockpit. Happy days!

Anyone hear from Dave Nieman nowadays? another Hanworth guy who, with Clive Weller, finally got me to the stage where I didn't have to take my plane home in a paper bag every outing!

This is a great thread - brings back all sorts of memories.

Cheers

Steve Jones

[Steve Dunning]

Martin, it's the October issue and on page 116.

Steve

[Martin McIntosh]

Thanks Steve, it must be an error on the cover of the November issue.

I remember Dave Nieman flying in to Fradley using his newly acquired heli licence. He was given a Jim Davis warbird on mode 1 but did not like it so changed to mode 2. Still not being keen he removed all of the Tx centring springs. Quote "that`s better". What a flyer.

Probably repeating myself here but just what has happened to aerobatics? Three flightlines to accommodate 70 flyers dominated the Nats until the turnaround schedule was introduced. One of the things which killed it for me. It just looks like a load of disjointed unrecognisable rubbish now with no spectator appeal. Humpty bump? What is it supposed to be? Evidently you need several surplus £grand to even think of being competitive these days. Umpteen classes with sometimes only one entrant, even at the Nats.

[Bob Cotsford]

Martin, as an outsider with regard to competitions of any kind I think you are right, the sheer financial investment for a fashionably acceptable model is too much for most. That and an air of elitism in some competition classes, it might not be how the competitors see it but that is the outsiders impression.

[Steve Dunning]

You are both right. The era we are looking at was when you could go out and purchasing all you needed from a model shop to build your own model. It is now very commercialised with new models every two years and people chasing success by having to have latest model. CPLR used the same model for 4-5 years and still won. Those at the top still design their own whilst others fork out hundreds, nay, thousands for a competitive model. Too much for the common modeller, me included!

[Martin McIntosh]

Hope you don`t mind me putting this here but it is a good place for it. A mate has just purchased the HP61 from Als Hobbies on my recommendation but when he received it the needle valve had been nicked. Anyone got one please?

Have also posted this on the wanted site.

[terry westrop]

Wow, it's been a busy time here of recent!

I absolutely agree, there's very little opportunity for the average modeller to acquire a good, current F3A aerobatic plan, buy some balsa & build a model that could allow them to sample competition aeros. That rather limits the number of those who might once have aspired to fly F3A.

Yes, even when I first flew a Nat's in '81, it was still 3 flight lines on main runway to accommodate all entrants.

One thing has not changed however, the pilot is the most important element.

[David Davis]

Posted by Martin McIntosh on 31/10/2013 21:14:43:

Hope you don`t mind me putting this here but it is a good place for it. A mate has just purchased the HP61 from Als Hobbies on my recommendation but when he received it the needle valve had been nicked. Anyone got one please?

Have also posted this on the wanted site.

Try this firm. They still stock and even make parts for HP engines.

http://www.mecoa.com

[Martyn K]

Posted by terry westrop on 30/10/2013 17:42:29:

Here's some nice cover shots to inspire.....

Pete Watson with Webra powered Super Star I recall. Good pilot, always in top six. Moved on to FF some years later.

Pete Watson actually became F1C (FAI FF Power) world champion in 2009. An amazing record/all rounder. I was at one of the FF events when he approached Russell Peers (early 1980's I think) about getting started in Free Flight power events. I think that he considered flying F3A was too expensive.

A modern F1C is probably the same price as a modern F3A, however, you really need at least 5 F1C models in your box.

Martyn

["L"Plate]

I remember back in the 80's starting out to fly aerobatics but due to being in the RAF and getting moved around never took part in competion outside RAFFMA. Now starting out again, in F3A and also looking at Classic. F3A is not that expensive until you get up to the FAI level, yes there is a lot of fashion followers and a lot of people think they need a full FIA spec model to compete, wrong! If it was just a matter of cost then IMAC would be suffering (they are big, expensive and noisy), but it is doing OK, F3A in Europe would be suffering but it isn't and they fly the same schadual as use.

So why the lack of people in the lower classes? I have a few of thoughts (probably wrong).

1. People think it is expensive, because they only ever see the big boys play with the expensive toys.

2. The lack of pilots in the lower classes for them to fly against so they feel they will be looked down on by the higher class pilots.

3. Some clubs like one I am in look at pilots flying a turnround as hogging the bit of sky they might wonder into, they also frown on 3D flight and even muttered when learner pilots have been practicing figure 8's.

4. The upper scheduals look very complex to any pilot starting out.

So what is so good about classic aerobatics? Well (for me) the price is right (especially for those who can still build models), some of use remember when the model was cutting edge (in fashion), the scheduals should be relitively easy to fly by any one at "B" test level.

[Martyn K]

Hi Algy

I think you have summed up beautifully exactly what classic aerobatics is all about.

Welcome.

Martyn

["L"Plate]

Thanks Martyn,

I think one of the things lost in modern aerobatics is if I quote correctly Phill Meason (Rothmans Aerobatic Team Pilot) "The best aerobatic performance inprover is not the technology fitted to the aircraft, it is the practice you put in.".

Yes technology helps and might add 1/10 of a point here and there but pracrice could add a lot more. With the classic aerobatics the technolgy is limited so the pilot makes the differance, so practice will have more effect on overall score.

But the best bit should always be to have fun, make friends and have a bit of sport trying to out fly each other and swopping stories about how the gust blew you off line.

Regards Algy

[terry westrop]

Thx for the update on Pete watson Martyn. Always nice to realise what happened to pilots we once competed with. Back then F3A was far easier to fund than nowadays! So I'm a little surprised Pete changed disciplines for that reason. But great to know he made WC in FF. Just shows that aeros is probably a fundamental 'tool' that can be applied to many other disciplines.

In response to Algy Yates; from my point of view, when starting out in competition, aspiring pilots look @ the best model available to them, not the cheapest. If the cheapest is their only option, they often pass. If however, they can acquire the best cheaply, (as was the case once upon a time), plan+balsa, they are more motivated to try. Inspiration is most important to attract potential to any discipline. Do any publications take an interest in F3A now, as they once did.....?

3D is something F3A pilots rarely practice & consequently find extemely difficult. Many international pilots practice both. To combine both disciplines well will deliver a very good pilot, but requires even more time & patience.

Unfortunately F3A are rather constrained with the compilation of programmes. Flexibillity is not an option it would appear. Hence the reason the schedules are very unappealing to the masses, especially spectators, those who may aspire.

[Bandit]

I wouldn't mind giving F3A a go if there is a raggedy lower class that don't mind seeing a complete novice at work

If you could try out with something fairly suitable and I liked it I might go out and buy a proper F3A plane.

[terry westrop]

Sounds like a good idea Bandit! Best way is to join up & see if the F3A lot have anything to offer 'have a go' pilots I guess. There once was well contested sections for starting up. Good luck.

[David Davis]

I used to participate in motorcycle trials riding. There were three classes: Novice, Intermediate and Expert. Once you'd won so many novice competitions you moved up to the intermediate class and were given more demanding sections to ride.

We could take a leaf out their book.

["L"Plate]

Hi Bandit,

Well there is a nivice class, thats the one I am in. It is called clubman and you can fly just about anything you like as long as it is under 2m, 5Kg and passes the sound test. I took part in what they call a NPOD this year and it got me all fired up, to get back to aerobatics. I can say that at the NPOD some of the top UK pilots gave advice and fliers turned up with model from fun flys, through Acrowatts to Sebart Wind 110 (I flew a Sebart Angel 30). Basically if you have got your "B" test you will find it easy to fly the trick is to fly it accuretly, like the Classic Novice schedual a lot of club pilots can fly the manouvers, it is all about getting them to look right (round loops, rolls in a straight line).

I hope more clubman pilots take part next season so I have some pilots to fly with. If you are interested just have a look at the GBRCAA web site there is even a video if you look under scheduals for the Clubman routine. As Terry suggests look at the events and see if there is any near you or better still an NPOD and go along.

I plan on doing both F3A and Classic comp' flying at the events nearer to me in Norfolk.

[David Foley]

While this is a very interesting topic I think it should have its own thread.

[Bob Cotsford]

Back on track, as they say it doesn't exist without picture, my latest acquisition:

Flair's finest representation of Mr Dunn's AstroHog.

ok it could do with recovering but it has a certain well used patina.

At least, that's what they always say on antiques Roadshow to introduce old tat

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 02/11/2013 14:45:13

[terry westrop]

Another one Bob!!! & I know you've the Mustfire to finish still......

When would you like your plans back? Thanking you for the loan. I'm still using them for ref however, so if next season's ok for you..?

[Bob Cotsford]

Hi Terry, there's no rush, in fact if you would care to take on the role of custodian then I'm fine with that. I suspect that any damage bad enough to need the plans will mean retirement for the KA.

Now the new central heating boiler is in I can get back to making a mess, so the Mustfire wings will be started soon, possibly tomorrow judging by the weather.

People keep offering old models at silly money, I just can't resist, I NEED help! I nearly ended up with a Puppeteer alongside the Hog, I just resisted.

So if anyone wants a nice Puppeter for well under the ton, 52 4 stroke, servos, possibly rx too, collection from the Midlands pm me and I'll put you in contact.

[Kevin Caton]

Could somebody give me guidance on how to post pictures here please? I have a Mac and apparently my browser settings are stopping me pasting pictures from iPhoto (I'm trying to use the "insert image from album" icon).

To whet appetites, I have been sorting through my photo collection and have lots of pictures from the late 1970s right up to date. The first few I have include Ken Binks' Pacemaker (1980 Nats), Peter Watson's Arrow (1981) and a few of my Lightnings. I have also taken some pictures of two Redshift 60s (serial numbers 600050 & 600482) that used to belong to my Dad.

Kevin

Edited By Kevin Caton on 26/01/2014 12:42:25

[Martin McIntosh]

Look forward to seeing those Kevin. I too am still having problems with pics and text on this forum using a PC. (any PC).