National Model Flying Centre

[Peter Christy]

Sorry BEB, but I do have to take issue with at least one comment you've made! The reason the BMFA mag is stuffed full of articles of "minority" interest is because those "minority" members get off their backsides and submit articles to the editor!

I've had this argument time and time again with the heli community, who are always moaning about the lack of coverage, but never submit anything themselves. They always want "someone else" to do it for them! On the (very!) rare occasions someone has submitted something, it has been printed.

The same goes for Area meetings. For a while I was the South Midland area delegate, and we were lucky in that our area at the time was very active. Many clubs sent reps along to the meetings, and it was surprising the results we achieved. "One member, one vote" came out of the process started by South Midlands - something others had been moaning about for ages.

Now it may be that the majority of members don't bother to vote, or turn up for the meetings, but in that case, they can hardly complain if the "small cabal" who DO actually get of their backsides end up calling the shots.

The solutions to all these criticisms are in the members hands. All they have to do is use the tools at their disposal!

--

Pete

[Dickw]

I have no particular interest in a National Model Flying Centre, and don’t really care one way or the other, but I do think there is a lot of hot air being spouted in this discussion. As far as I can see all the BMFA has done is ask its members if they are interested in such a centre and for some idea of how much, if anything, they would be willing to pay for it.

Judging by a majority of the 99 posts so far you would have thought the BMFA had for ulterior motives hidden that question where no one could find it, whereas in fact they published the existence of the survey several time in a magazine that they post to all members, and even extended the deadline to try and get a better response. What else do you want – personal phone calls from the chairman?

Perhaps internet forums?

Well they could have put it on here and reached the 35 people who have bothered to join in this discussion so far. How many other forums should they try to get the message across.

 

I don’t know if the BMFA survey can be said to be representative of anything, but it is probably the best current information they have. I assume they will now carry out some sort of feasibility study which may result in some more detailed proposals to be put to the membership. If people are really against it that gives them time to get like minded people elected to the BMFA council to squash it. That shouldn’t be difficult, but it does mean actually doing something.

 

NOTES

I stopped buying model magazines many years ago because I found nothing of interest in them, but I do read the BMFA mag because it comes through the door anyway – and no, I don’t fly Free Flight .

 

The ‘BMFA’ and ‘SMAE Ltd’ are the same thing, the BMFA is just a public name they use to better explain what they are about (as has been explained many times over the last decade or so). If sending a SAE to get a copy of the constitution is a major obstacle then you are obviously not that interested.

 

Rant over.

 

Dick

Edited By Dickw on 15/08/2014 12:48:14

[G-YRUS]

I don't think I can add anything new to the argument and feel BEB has been very eloquent. I feel I should just put my vote firmly in the NO!!!!! camp. Any National Centre will be to the benefit of the few paid for by the majority. I would rather they put the money into helping regional sites if they have too rather than something most probably have no interest in using. I fly with my mates, have little interest in competing and think dressing up in a dinner jacket is pretentious in the extreme. THIS IS JUST A HOBBY flying model aeroplanes for goodness sake (well to the majority anyway). BMFA is just an insurance broker and its about time they got their head out of their backsides, most of us do not join for any other reason. I'm waiting for the ad for independent insurance and happy to say good bye to the BMFA.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Well here's a crazy idea Dick

Why not ask all the members themselves ? Doodson's are picking up the bill i'll look forward to receiving my voting slip.

John

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think you miss the point Dick. If the BMFA is a transparent, democratic and open organisation (as Peter was making the case it was) then in 2014 I shouldn't have to go to the trouble of seeking out and formally requesting the constitution of a body I am supposed to be member of.

If I want to read the constitution of my club it is freely available on the website - indeed its so open you could download and read it if you want, as could any prospective member. And that's how it should be - that's what an open and accountable organisation looks like in this age.

But fear not - I am in the process of making just such a request to BMFA - and then I will know. And I will hopefully understand all sorts of new things like the relationship between the BMFA and the SMAE and the power of members to call EGM's etc. - and I'll make it public - a job the organisation should be doing itself but regretfully doesn't. Unless of course the BMFA tell me its a secret!?

BEB

PS Oh, and if we are discussing forums Dick and their power to disseminate - well this thread has been read by 3200 people so far - I think that's more than responded to the BMFA survey. So in terms of "being in touch" with its membership/clients I think the BMFA could learn a lot from Modelflying and RCM&E generally.

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/08/2014 14:19:32

[leccyflyer]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/08/2014 14:17:37:

I think you miss the point Dick. If the BMFA is a transparent, democratic and open organisation (as Peter was making the case it was) then in 2014 I shouldn't have to go to the trouble of seeking out and formally requesting the constitution of a body I am supposed to be member of.

If I want to read the constitution of my club it is freely available on the website - indeed its so open you could download and read it if you want, as could any prospective member. And that's how it should be - that's what an open and accountable organisation looks like in this age.

But fear not - I am in the process of making just such a request to BMFA - and then I will know. And I will hopefully understand all sorts of new things like the relationship between the BMFA and the SMAE and the power of members to call EGM's etc. - and I'll make it public - a job the organisation should be doing itself but regretfully doesn't. Unless of course the BMFA tell me its a secret!?

BEB

PS Oh, and if we are discussing forums Dick and their power to disseminate - well this thread has been read by 3200 people so far - I think that's more than responded to the BMFA survey. So in terms of "being in touch" with its membership/clients I think the BMFA could learn a lot from Modelflying and RCM&E generally.

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/08/2014 14:19:32

It's a very common misconception, but that isn;t the case at all. The thread has had 3200 views. Now I know that I've looked at it at least ten times, and you will have looked at it more than that, having made multiple posts to the thread. the number of people who have read the thread could easily be at least an order of magnitude lower than the number of views.

[PatMc]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/08/2014 14:17:37:

PS Oh, and if we are discussing forums Dick and their power to disseminate - well this thread has been read by 3200 people so far - I think that's more than responded to the BMFA survey. So in terms of "being in touch" with its membership/clients I think the BMFA could learn a lot from Modelflying and RCM&E generally.

No, this thread hasn't been read by 3200 people, it's been read 3200 times.

[Dickw]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/08/2014 14:17:37:

...............................................But fear not - I am in the process of making just such a request to BMFA - and then I will know. And I will hopefully understand all sorts of new things like the relationship between the BMFA and the SMAE and the power of members to call EGM's etc. - and I'll make it public -....................................

 

Look forward to your comments when you have read it.

 

Dick

Edited By Dickw on 15/08/2014 15:16:36

[Cuban8]

Posted by PatMc on 15/08/2014 14:25:13:

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/08/2014 14:17:37:

PS Oh, and if we are discussing forums Dick and their power to disseminate - well this thread has been read by 3200 people so far - I think that's more than responded to the BMFA survey. So in terms of "being in touch" with its membership/clients I think the BMFA could learn a lot from Modelflying and RCM&E generally.

No, this thread hasn't been read by 3200 people, it's been read 3200 times.

Seeing as this issue could well cause serious upheaval within UK model flying and for those taking part, (whether pro or anti) are we likely to see any comment from RCM&E in its next issue, or would that be viewed as interfering?

[Peter Christy]

BEB: I take your point about the availability of the constitution, but I think you may have to forget modelling for a while if you intend reading the whole thing!

Remember that the SMAE (BMFA is simply a "working title" ) is a limited company, so the constitution will be written in legalese - how comprehensible this will be to Joe Public is something I would be interested to hear! The members handbooks provide pretty much all of it in a much more digestible form. You would probably be better off asking for the constitution governing the Councils, Full, Area and Technical, which will probably be of more practical use.

Coming back to the original topic, my personal view is that a national centre would be nice - IF it could be done without placing an undue burden on the membership.

We had something akin to a National centre some years back - remember Goosedale? OK, that was a private enterprise, but it seemed to be doing quite well until they fell out with the local council (at least, that's what I heard on the rumour mill! ). Its a pity the BMFA couldn't step in then and buy it as a going concern.

However, that's water under the bridge. The reality of the here and now is that such a venture is likely to be expensive and is probably a non-starter, but I see no reason not to investigate the possibility, which is all that the "powers-that-be" are doing.

And whilst its rare for me to disagree with BEB, I have to over the comments I referred to in my earlier post. I got involved with the BMFA Council because of something that really annoyed me. But instead of just muttering about it, I used the tools available and got a result - and along the way (as a side effect!) was instrumental in getting "One member, One vote" through!

The tools are there for members to express their views to the elected officials. If they choose not to use them, then the elected officials can hardly be blamed. And come election time you now have "One member, One vote"!

Oh, and I stood down from active participation in the various Councils a few years back, so I'm not privy to any inside information, or upset by any of the comments that have been made!

--

Pete

 

Edited for language infringement By David Ashby - RCME on 15/08/2014 17:03:50

Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 16/08/2014 06:33:58

[cymaz]

Will the BMFA listen....well I've been onto their news web page. 6 pages of topics and not one had the comments section open so nobody can put any comments for the BMFA to see and acknowledge.

Reminds me of the 3 monkeys.

[Peter Christy]

IIRC the BMFA forums were closed because of the vast amount of abuse that was going on (and not much of it directed against the BMFA)!

Remember, its nearly all run by volunteers. If you fancy volunteering to moderate the comments, I'm sure your application will be welcome!

[cymaz]

So where do we go from here? We cold talk about this all day long - and we have. I suppose we will wait to see.

So where will be the centre be based?

[LPP]

How about sharing with something like this here

Another link here

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I did some moaning about lack of communication on here, so I sent Manny a e-mail, as usual he got back to me promptly, so credit where it's due Thanks Manny.

John

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Couldn't agree more John - I've no issue what so ever with the boys and girls in the office. A great bunch and always very helpful. My "beef" with BMFA does not lie there!

BEB

[Slickriff]

As many people in the thread have stated, the main reason people are in the BMFA is for insurance. After a small incident at our field it was reported to the BMFA for insurance reasons JUST IN CASE SOMEONE MADE A CLAIM , and the response was a form to fill in and a request for fifty quid. The fifty quid was to cover administration costs, so I am not really sure what our fees cover but apparently not all our day to day insurance.........yet there is money for a national flying centre?! Something seems very wrong with priorities here.

[Peter Jenkins]

Well, I've had my copy of the BMFA Constitution and read it. Sounds very similar to my Club Constitution. Tells me precisely how to go about calling an EGM, how to determine a quorum etc.

As Pete Christy has said,if you don't participate don't be surprised if your views are not included.

In answer to Cymaz, and anyone else pondering this point, make sure you raise this with your Club, make sure your Club rep to the Area attends the Area Commiittee meeting and puts over your/your Club's view sothat your Area Delegate can put this forward at Full Council and vote accordingly. That's how the BMFA works - that is pure fact and I am not trying to blow the BMFA trumpet by saying so. I would think something so large would most likely need either an EGM or be dealt with at the AGM. If all affiliated Clubs attended the A/EGM, they would have the overwhelming vote on a matter like this.

There are comments here which allude to past misdemeanors by the BMFA. What does that mean? There is a new BMFA Chairman as of the last AGM. Does that change anything?

I do agree that the BMFA web site should have the Constitution on it.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Bit fed up of hearing "if you don't get involved your views won't be considered" to be honest with you lads. I pay money in, I work at the club as BMFA secretary, I promote the achievement scheme, I attend some area meetings, our clubs affiliated, our open days insist on BMFA insurance, i'm a club instructor and an examiner, all voluntary. Look's to me as though I am involved. Most of the club don't do this BUT they pay in, to Me that say's they are involved also. One comment Manny made to me was an increase in fee's will likely be a tough sell to the members.

Who do you think that job will fall on ?

John

[Gary Manuel]

I don't get this "if you don't participate don't be surprised if your views are not included." statement that keeps being quoted.

"Participation" to most members is about flying, not running an organisation that is mandated by their local club rules.

It would appear that the people who are making this sort of statement are of the belief that the BMFA organisation is bigger than the hobby it is supposed to promote. They must not forget that less than 5% of the overall membership were either aware of, or interested enough in the forming of a National Model Centre to take part in the poll.

If these people think that the disinterested / uninformed 95% will be willing to attend committee meetings to discuss such matters or fund such a white elephant through increased subscriptions, they need to wake up or risk losing a large proportion of their membership!

Don't forget chaps, that a smaller membership will result in a further subscription increase as the cost per remaining member increases.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I have a lot of sympathy with the views expressed by John and Gary above. To say people are "not involved" because they don't want to be on yet another committee is a bit unfair when they are paid up members who put a lot in to hobby - other than run BMFA!

My profile is similar to John's; affliated club member, membership secretary, treasurer (so I collect and return all the dosh from our club to BMFA!), club committee member, instructor, moderator on here,....its sometimes amazes me that as I also hold down a fairly demanding full time job as well as all that, I actual find time to fly at all!

I've just spent most of tonight preparing returns for new members to BMFA and getting the club's accounts all up to date and checking the bank statements.

So - it does gall just a little to be told that I'm not involved enough and in order to stop a crack pot scheme I need to be prepared to put in even more!

BEB

[Lee Smalley]

Why is it always our fault, if the content in the BmFA news is rubbish its our fault for not contributing (not that i knew we could)and if the bmfa is not run right its our fault for not bashing through the layers of representatives to have our voices heard, is it me or am i wrong in thinking THEY should be the ones coming to us and they should be the ones ensuring what they do, publish, and write about represents proportionally what its membership do and want, i thought that's what running the BMFA was about

[Peter Christy]

I think people are misinterpreting the word "participate". All you need to do is to make sure that your club rep knows your views and passes them on. How hard is that?

The BMFA are not mind readers, and with the exception of the office staff, it is run by unpaid volunteers. How are they supposed to know your views if you don't tell them?

Don't expect them to trawl through every forum on the internet! There are dozens - even just here in the UK - and many of the people on them are not BMFA members anyway!

The BMFA have clearly laid down procedures for making your voices heard. Its no good complaining if you don't avail yourselves of them.

However, this thread seems to have wandered miles off its original topic - whether a national site would be a good idea or not - and descended into yet another "lets bash the BMFA for not being able to read my mind" thread.

Time perhaps to close the topic!

--

Pete

[Gary Manuel]

OK then back on topic ......

No it would not be a good idea because it will require an increase is subscriptions and take the BMFA focus off where it should be - representing it's members.

edit - spelling mistake corrected.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 20/08/2014 13:16:19

[Lee Smalley]

despite your attempts to self moderate this thread peter it is all part of the same issue the BMFA are out of touch, and massively so, rather than get defensive about it why not ask for changes, you seem to be in the know, and as for BMFA bashing sometimes they deserve it sometimes they do not, on this issue they most certainly do, as the general consensus on here is roughly aligned, it seems to fly in face of their own census which seems to be roughly of the type " Cake or Death" please tick one