I.c. or electric/silent - what do you mainly fly?

[Erfolg]

I suspect the reason David runs his various polls is to get a feel of how readers feel, what their interests are, and the general direction of travel of the modelling community and of course curiosity. A very sensible thing to do to keep the magazine fresh, and relevant.

I guess what is surprising is the passion some IC modellers have, I guess it is the same type of passion that was and is felt by the Equine community with the coming of the car and then the dominance of the IC engine. As with horses, I am sure that they will always be around with fervent adherents.

I am also surprised at the changes electrics have had. My dominant background is thermal gliders, which were launched by Bungee and Winch or towline in competition. Even here, a revolution has taken place, the bungee and towline being consigned to the dustbin of history, with winches being used in competition. Again the odd person persist and others talk of returning to the purity of the bungee. By and large, electrics are totally dominant and keep making an ingress to the few remaining areas of competition where they have not completely reached.

Electric power has turned me from gilders to semi scale/sport models. No issue with noise, no dirt and mess, not a boot full of gear just to keep an IC going.

Again I have a collection of IC engines, held onto for reasons of nostalgia. I do toy with the idea of another IC model, then the reality dawns and i just look at my motors,and put them away, safely.

[Dai Fledermaus]

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 09/01/2015 11:47:42:

Posted by Dai Fledermaus on 09/01/2015 11:20:23:

The pertinent question is Does it Matter? what your favoured form of propulsion is, as long as RCM&E is even handed in it's content and reflects all interests.

The danger with this type of poll is that if electric, as it might well be, is currently shown to be popular, RCM&E will tend to feature more and more articles for electric flyers which will inevitably upset the IC boys who will look elsewhere for a magazine to reflect their interest.

Edited By Dai Fledermaus on 09/01/2015 11:21:00

No it doesnt matter a damm what pulls your airframe round the sky at all, each has its advantages and complexities, though I suspect there will always be banter between the two...

but RCM&E's coverage should relect the interests of its readership and if the proportion of IC flyers continues to shrink then I would expect the pages RCM&E dedicates to IC to shrink proportionately

I hope you're wrong Dave because if IC becomes a minority interest in the pages of the RCM&E, I'll be cancelling my subscription looking at picking up a copy of alternative magazines like R/C World or R/C Model Flyer or just getting all the information I need on line. I suspect I would not be alone.

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Dai Fledermaus on 09/01/2015 12:29:45:

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 09/01/2015 11:47:42:

Posted by Dai Fledermaus on 09/01/2015 11:20:23:

The pertinent question is Does it Matter? what your favoured form of propulsion is, as long as RCM&E is even handed in it's content and reflects all interests.

The danger with this type of poll is that if electric, as it might well be, is currently shown to be popular, RCM&E will tend to feature more and more articles for electric flyers which will inevitably upset the IC boys who will look elsewhere for a magazine to reflect their interest.

Edited By Dai Fledermaus on 09/01/2015 11:21:00

No it doesnt matter a damm what pulls your airframe round the sky at all, each has its advantages and complexities, though I suspect there will always be banter between the two...

but RCM&E's coverage should relect the interests of its readership and if the proportion of IC flyers continues to shrink then I would expect the pages RCM&E dedicates to IC to shrink proportionately

I hope you're wrong Dave because if IC becomes a minority interest in the pages of the RCM&E, I'll be cancelling my subscription looking at picking up a copy of alternative magazines like R/C World or R/C Model Flyer or just getting all the information I need on line. I suspect I would not be alone.

At the end of the day RCM&E is a commercial venture, it has to sell copies to support itself, so it is forced to follow the trends in the community or become increasingly isolated from the majority of modellers, if that means it ceases to represent what some dedicated IC flyers want to read then I afraid thats a shame but the commercial reality of the world, personally I have no intention to go back to my youth and IC engines but I do look at the articles on some of the exotic multi cylinder IC engines and briefly think Mmmmm thats nice (thankfully the price brings me back to the real world!)

Its upto Mr Ashby and team to find a balance that keeps everyone happy

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I would give almost anything to own a horse, (a thing of beauty) I've worked with a few and it's a pleasure being around them, even cleaning the messy smelly stuff out was enjoyable and it's good for your garden Obviously i'd drive to the stables in my car and most likely get there without changing the battery

John

[Dave Hopkin]

A nice analogy John, but the Horse was once a workaday beast of transport and burden, now its a cosetted plaything - and give it a few years and there will probably be a charging point for the car there too

[Steve T]

Not really sure why there seems to be bit of a stress going on with a few ic fliers, as I read the graph there still isn't a gulf between ic and elec, surely any change in RCME policy regarding coverage would not be in the near future. Serious mathematics was never my floating boat but there still seems to be plenty of ic activity, please correct me if I'm wrong. I am only totally elec as I live with horses, pigs, and various feathered things that just do not like the noise. So it's not just busybodies that complain! Still I would love a nice throaty ic in a big kit.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

There is no stress Steve it's tongue in cheek, however describing I.C as unreliable irks some of us, it implies we are stupid to use it. I.C or lecky are both reliable...dependant on the user ? I use both no problems.

Dave you don't need a charging point for a horse

John

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by john stones 1 on 09/01/2015 15:34:58:

There is no stress Steve it's tongue in cheek, however describing I.C as unreliable irks some of us, it implies we are stupid to use it. I.C or lecky are both reliable...dependant on the user ? I use both no problems.

Dave you don't need a charging point for a horse

John

and you dont need hay for a leccy

[Erfolg]

Many of us have been taken aback by the increase in the numbers flying electric models of all types. Yet the flying field increasingly confirms the trend.

When you look at the RCM&E magazine, I would guess the balance as it stands between IC and electric is about right, although possibly light on electric. Perhaps a little heavy on pure gliding type models. This is just viewing consistent magazine content.

I am not aware of any complaints at all from electric modellers of under representation. Although there is an occasional suggestion that there is not enough emphasis on IC models, I am guessing from die hard IC modellers, who will never consider electric models, which is fine for them.

As has been written by others magazine content is a balance, from the aspirational, to the mundane, starter models, to museum standard, mixed in with related peripheral content. On that basis i think the magazine has struck a fair balance. Although current trends would suggest that electric models will become more prevalent, that gliding has a small hard core following, which may or not be the fate for IC models. Should the content be eliminated from the magazine, I would guess that there would be a definite no from the readers, as even if they were a minority activity, never the less reflect the broad spectrum of interests that we modellers have as aeromodellers .

I bet at least 75% of electric modellers have a soft spot for IC motors in particular and even as far as the models themselves.

You can easily see the attraction of electric powered models in the convenience, relative quietness, and cleandiness of these models. On the downside is that IC models have far better duration per once of fuel than electric models. Yes, I now you can make a noisy electric model, yet a little thought and appropriate action and the sound level comes right down.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 09/01/2015 15:39:57:

Posted by john stones 1 on 09/01/2015 15:34:58:

There is no stress Steve it's tongue in cheek, however describing I.C as unreliable irks some of us, it implies we are stupid to use it. I.C or lecky are both reliable...dependant on the user ? I use both no problems.

Dave you don't need a charging point for a horse

John

and you dont need hay for a leccy

Yes you do it comes in mah

John

[Dai Fledermaus]

I think I need to apologise to David Ashby for turning his poll into another sterile IC v Electric debate. That wasn't my intention, because both ways of spinning that prop has it's devotees, it's pros and cons and we all just need to live with it. This hobby should be a broad church!

I am concerned, however, that if the poll, and others which follow it, identify an increasing interest in electric flight, then the magazine will follow that trend, and the interest in IC will diminish even further.

There is already a magazine, on the market called Quiet & Electric Flight. Do we really need another?

[Masher]

Do you really think people are going to change from IC to electric or vice versa because of a magazine trend? Most of us make our own choices I think.

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Masher on 09/01/2015 16:46:51:

Do you really think people are going to change from IC to electric or vice versa because of a magazine trend? Most of us make our own choices I think.

No not at all, what we were saying was that the editors of the Magazine have to take note of the trends in the hobby and provide articles to cater for that change in demographic or face loosing readership - so if the hobby grows by new flyers going electric commercially David has little choice but to devote a growing percentage of the articles to electric

Whether IC flyers get tempted to dabble in electrickey or Electric flyers get tempted to get oily may happen of course but I wouldn't expect it in large numbers

[Masher]

Ok.

I don't want to fuel the IC/electric debate but ........

I fly both but prefer IC and IC is always my first choice. I only fly electric when I have to - EG. when flying in a nearby field where noise from an IC engine would not be appreciated.

I wonder if all of the strong defenders of either have actually tried both forms? I also wonder why I don't get the same buzz from electric - life would be much simpler if I did.

[Erfolg]

I am some what surprised that any one could conjure up that there is an anti IC view being put forward by any one.

What appears to be happening is that there is an increasing switch towards electric flight.

It does matter commercially not only to the magazines, it also matters to the modelling trade, that is the range of products stocked in shops and to the what distributors order. There will have been knock on effects to the trade already, from engines sold and fuel sold.

My favourite IC engine is a ED Racer, which will almost certainly never be used again, because i cannot conveniently buy fuel.

The only issue which I can think can be thought of as being anti IC, is that many electric fliers are very noise conscious. Not because they particularly dislike IC engines, but an awareness that noise is an ever present issue. This ranges from the community in general and for us specifically nature groups. One club is electric only as we fly on NT land, with a bird conservation sanctuary approximately either 1/4 mile away, or immediately adjacent. The second club flies of LA land which had a conservation group patrolling the whole area (now disbanded). Thankfully IC engines are now a lot quieter than they were, although generally not as quite as electric models.

Although i would on the whole contest any anti IC feelings, just a preference that seems to be growing in favour of electric power.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 09/01/2015 12:19:09:

I suspect the reason David runs his various polls is to get a feel of how readers feel, what their interests are, and the general direction of travel of the modelling community and of course curiosity.

True Carl, the results are always interesting, remembering though that many polls are suggested by forum users, this poll was too.

[Chris Reid]

Further to my earlier input; while the number of electric models/flyers in my Club has increased to around 55% on an average flying day, the diminution in I/C motor use has been mainly in the 40 to 60 glow motor range. Simultaneously, there has been a growth in the use of larger petrol engines. Fuel costs might be a factor, but it seems to be part of the growth of model sizes and their power sources. As an aside, big petrol motors, have brought back noise issues that we had virtually eliminated for glow motor users. We don' t have any tensions between I/C and electric fliers, although some of the former tend to see volts, amps and watts as elements of a black art!

[cymaz]

Agreed Colin, then if the magazine has to reflect the modelling fraternity then maybe it should have a few more petrol engine articles.

The number of petrols for sale, even down to the tiny Evolution ones has increased. People maybe are / could be interested in an article on the pro and cons of petrol. The sizes available, costs, set ups etc.

[Bill Gordon 2]

The only thing that bothers me about the IC/Elec. issue is the same as the ARTF. It is really hard(in Canada at least) to find anything interesting/fun to build. It's all about the semi-disposable foamie that takes up shop space and trying to find a hobby shop that sells more than spare parts or quad-copters takes a bit of driving. I'm starting over in the hobby after a long hiatus and I get a lot of blank looks when I speak of building or glow engines. In fact, I had an instructor tell me he couldn't take me up because he had never flown glow and didn't know what to expect. I guess I'll be chucking my clogs in the machines like the other Luddites.

[Dai Fledermaus]

Posted by Bill Gordon 2 on 09/01/2015 20:49:12:

The only thing that bothers me about the IC/Elec. issue is the same as the ARTF. It is really hard(in Canada at least) to find anything interesting/fun to build. It's all about the semi-disposable foamie that takes up shop space and trying to find a hobby shop that sells more than spare parts or quad-copters takes a bit of driving. I'm starting over in the hobby after a long hiatus and I get a lot of blank looks when I speak of building or glow engines. In fact, I had an instructor tell me he couldn't take me up because he had never flown glow and didn't know what to expect. I guess I'll be chucking my clogs in the machines like the other Luddites.

 

 

Blimey Bill that's a sad state of affairs. I hope we never get to that situation here in the U.K

 

Edited By Dai Fledermaus on 10/01/2015 08:57:09

[Erfolg]

I am surprised that IC is thin on the ground in places such as Canada, there being so much open space, as far as a UK one time visitor saw it. In the past i went from Toronto to lake Huron which are separated by hundreds of miles. We passed perhaps one very small town/village.

Could the problem be one of the transportation of the fuel (methanol & nitromethane), through the distribution system economically, as increasingly becomes an issue in the UK?

The same issue would not be present with petrol IC motors. The downside is the higher cost of each unit, particularly at the smaller sizes. This is emphasised when compared to a budget electric motor.

[Brian Cooper]

During the winter months, I find it convenient to fly smaller, electric models -- the sort which can fit into the car already assembled -- especially if it is very cold and I am not planning on spending too long at the field.

The simplicity of just plugging in a Lipo to be ready to fly is great. . And not having the hassle of fiddling with wing bolts with cold fingers at the end of a session is a bonus.

Having said that, I still fly I.C. powered models . . . I.C. engines run better in the cold, damp air of the winter months so it would be rude not to exploit this advantage, eh....

B.C.

[Erfolg]

The apparent lack of IC models in Canada, has been turning over in my mind. I was thinking, in a country that is one wher IC models, would appear not to suffer from the noise restrictions which seem pretty universal, Iin Europe, I thought if they could as a category thrive, Canada is one.

Looking at the purchases from retail outlets, you can immediately see an advantage, That is even a small airplane package costs a lot less if electric. Electric motors at the budget end are cheaper by a margin then a cheap IC engine, then there is the saving in all the ancillary equipment. Far easier to sell.

Many of us who started from an IC background, tend to forget issues such as this, after all we tend to have most of the stuff.

The other major selling point for electrics is you just switch on, plug in and away you go. Very attractive to an initiatiants to the hobby.

The major advantage of IC models has been at the larger end of the spectrum. Mainly from a cost stand point. Even this is not as great as it used to be.

i would guess that the longer you have been an aeromodeller, the greater the probability is that you have IC engines and models.

If the supposition I have made are broadly true, how many newcomers will buy an IC package in the future as they progress through the hobby?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I don't suppose it matters Erf as long as it puts a smile on their face

Not just electric has come on in recent years, the range and price of petrols gets ever better.

John