Dom (Essential RC) Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Despite having a lot of experience it's very easy to make bad sub-second decisions under pressure whatever model you are flying. This vid is worth sharing because it's easy to spot what could have been done better in this extreme situation. For me...it's these... 1. Full power test the model while it is safely restrained to ensure it DOES actually reach full power. 2. If no power and flying downwind do NOT turn into wind. The risk of killing airspeed and stalling will be high. It's hard to overcome the instinct to turn but much better to continue gliding and set the model down even if far in the distance. 3. If no power and flying over rough grass (as in this scenario) a gear up, belly landing is probably better. Ripping out retracts can cause much more damage. Edited By Dom (Essential RC on YouTube and Facebook) on 01/01/2015 09:05:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Looking at your video it looks like he attempted to retract the undercarriage, but it jammed partway up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR 71 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 He treid to bank it to tight and stalled it , easy to be wise after the event, ask me how i know, mine was a total jet loss, everything consumed in the fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom (Essential RC) Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 I'm not seeing that Frank. Up until the stall they are definitely down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew767 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Dom.....Like Frank i can see he tried to retract on climbout but gear only raised part way.......Always sad when a model crashes. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom (Essential RC) Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by SR 71 on 01/01/2015 09:25:02: He treid to bank it to tight and stalled it , easy to be wise after the event, ask me how i know, mine was a total jet loss, everything consumed in the fire Indeed. Easy to be wise after the event. I think the ONLY way of a good outcome is to be planning for the possibility of it happening. When I fly my jets I am thinking fairly frequently...what if I had a flameout here or there on the circuit. I'll be more mindful on take off now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 he didn't have much room for manoeuvre...little height etc ... and his head will have been sending all sorts of signal's to his hands.........but it didn't look too bad......considering.. ken Anderson...ne...1 air crash dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu knowles Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Easy to say what could have been done when you are not the one holding the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert baker Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you were there filming it why did you not ask the chap what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom (Essential RC) Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by bert baker on 01/01/2015 09:58:42: If you were there filming it why did you not ask the chap what happened. If you crashed your most valuable model Bert...would you want me in your face straight afterwards asking loads of questions?! I do happen to know the pilot and he volunteered some info but I didn't feel inclined to grill him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert baker Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Yep much better to do it over the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom (Essential RC) Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 There wasn't actually anything else to ask him. What else do you want to know? The engine didn't reach full power and it shutdown on the downwind leg. Edited By Dom (Essential RC on YouTube and Facebook) on 01/01/2015 10:18:18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert baker Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 A spot of bad luck then, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Seems to me that only drastically wrong things the pilot did was the bad preparation and taking off at all! The turbine was never giving its all, you can hear that from the outset, unless the take off was supposed to be a half throttle, long run affair. He then retracts the gear, apart from it doesn't. The model then staggers around the sky nose high, on the stall. It has a couple of little bites throughout that short flight so its no wonder it gives up flying in the final tight banked approach. Such a shame as the model is quite badly damaged apparently. I disagree with point 2 though Dom. In some circumstances you have no option but to go straight on downwind, but I'd never rule out getting into wind if it is still a viable option. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Sometime, just having the money and getting a jet doesn't neccessarily mean you are immune from dead sticks, or lack or pre-flight and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks Dom on video and issues ... so ... A classic tip stall .... neither the first nor the last, in our lives of modelers...what a pity Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 01/01/2015 11:14:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I agree with Ian, Dom. If you don't have enough height to make the gliding turn into wind then you have no choice but to carry on downwind with a high groundspeed. If you have the height and the position, turning and landing into wind will allways be the best choice. It does not 'kill the airspeed' - the aircraft is flying in a block of air that could be moving in any direction relative to the ground. The airspeed doesn't change, only the groundspeed. What happens with model flying is that the pilot is in a fixed position on the ground and that makes it difficult to judge the airspeed correctly. It's trying to stretch the glide that causes the loss of airspeed and stall. If I'm flying full size and turn into wind my airspeed stays the same, but my groundspeed may change a lot. Full size you can lose 100ft or more for each 90deg of turn in the glide, so if you have the height you get positioned into wind early. It's a lot easier to lose more height with 'S' turns or sideslips than it is to gain height with no engine. If you don't have the height though you just have to pick the best looking field ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom (Essential RC) Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by David P Williams on 01/01/2015 11:40:47: I agree with Ian, Dom. If you don't have enough height to make the gliding turn into wind then you have no choice but to carry on downwind with a high groundspeed. That is what I meant in (2) and fairly sure what I typed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Flyer Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Gear definitely tried to retract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Posted by Dom (Essential RC on YouTube and Facebook) on 01/01/2015 09:03:44: 2. If no power and flying downwind do NOT turn into wind. The risk of killing airspeed and stalling will be high. It's hard to overcome the instinct to turn but much better to continue gliding and set the model down even if far in the distance. That's what you typed Dom - no mention of height. The turn itself will not kill airspeed but, as you may have meant, the ground-based pilot's actions based on his perception of airspeed may well do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Sums up Ferrari's year......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Jones 14 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 There is often debate about up-wind vs. down-wind turns. I thought current wisdom is that there is no difference, the aircraft does not fly at groundspeed but at airspeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon burch Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Such a shame to see this, but those Futuras look pretty tough, I hope it flies again. I'm sure I've seen another video of the same model tip stalling after a tight turn on approach after a flame out. I think that was on grass and he got away with it that time. Another metre or so and it would have just come down with a bump....very unlucky. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Smith 21 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hi guys let me tell you how it all went wrong for me at Classic Jets 61. The problem really started a year ago when I accepted a RX180 in exchange for a RX100 that had failed many times before I decided to send it back for the 4th time and tell Jet Cat I don't want it back. That story is for another post. So my first time at Classic jets, in the queue awaiting my turn, did the fail safe test and checked the newly installed just back from Jet Cat 180 for the second time engine was responding to throttle as expected and all was good. Although I did not test for full throttle (My first mistake). Taxi out, line up call for full throttle, all seamed normal on the day but does look slow in the video. Rotated, lift off, gear up switch, was expecting to raw off as usual but noticed very quickly lack of power. Decided to do a low circuit and land immediately on the limited power I had at my disposal, gear switch back down, just so you know the gear on this plane is slow at best and sometimes needs a roll to put it away. 3/4 around the circuit flame out, this is where I could of saved her, just gone down wind (Very little wind either way) and put it in the grass safely. Still turning realising I would not make it back to the tarmac, gear switch back up, still turning into wind, not enough speed or height for that turn, tip stall, nose plant, broken Futura, fuz and wing. Fuz is not too bad and could easily be repaired, the wing is beyond my skill/patients level for repair. I am ordering a new fuz and wing, fingers crossed it comes soon. Not done a full autopsy on the engine as yet, needless to say it will need to go back again and hopefully will be fixed properly this time. Not sure I want to risk any further models to this engine, I have a King Tech 210 for another project so will be using that and if all is well with the 210 I will be adding a second to my arsenal. It worked very well in potters Futura. Lesson to learn? Hindsight! need to have more of this for future flights. LOL. No really, always test full throttle on the ground before every flight something, I rarely do but will ALWAYS from now on. With all that behind me I must say apart from the obvious it was a great day at a great venue, lots of great models and top guys. I will defiantly add more CJ dates to my diary, looking forward to great 2015. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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