john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 What's the verdict on these ESC the ones I normally use are backorder John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 hello john-never used that one but check out here -they have various 40 amp ones-for less dosh etc......be with you asap if you order now...in fact the 'basic' one for £12.00 is a goodin....the money you save will get us both a pint... ken Anderson...ne..1 ..... ESC's dept. Edited By ken anderson. on 26/02/2015 15:03:09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think I understand where John is coming from, I now just use the Blue series, as I have come to know what to expect, how to set up. When hard pressed because my favourites have not been available i have used the AE series. I have used one Brain What they all have in common that I have a programming card for each one. Makes life easier, although now a power flyer, the need for the card seems to be a thing of the past, as the factory settings fit the bill. I am eagerly awaiting input from those who have used the K series, and what their opinions are. Which always raises the question what makes one ESC better than another? Is it reliability, cost, ease of setting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Posted by Erfolg on 26/02/2015 15:20:21: I have used one Brain That's as many as most of us have to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Thanks Ken, the bumf reads the same as tothers. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Barwick Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The ESC that you have linked John is a hobbywing that has been rebranded. I have used them faultlessly in all of my kits. And I have personally never had one that has never gone wrong (touching wood ). Erflog What I believe makes one esc better than another is purely down the the settings available . for example timings, some are in degrees which is more accurate and then some are just high medium and low. Also the more expensive esc have generally alot lower internal resistance than the cheaper ones. But the difference is on;y really noticable on higher power applications. or so I believe (just my pence worth Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I notice that the Basic ESC mentioned by Ken is only suitable for 2 to3S and is only a linear BEC rather than the Switch Mode BEC. It depends what you want to use it for...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 I looked at these K.C John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 It is strange that you should mention switch mode becs. I have looked in the past to find such ESC and they only seem to exist at the very expensive end or very high ampage types. I then started to think, is the amount of wasted energy very significant, or is it a theoretical nicety where the saving is of less importance than say what propeller you use. I am not for one moment saying that this assertion is correct, rather posing the question. Again not trying to be controversial, I have set in the past the timing to the three settings available, with a outrunner as the motor. I came to the conclusion, it was very hard to tell if there was any material difference in revs or amps pulled. On the other hand, I have had a inrunner that needed I think high timing to get it to run. If I have a conclusion, it could be that timing matters more now if you want to run a high Kv inrunner. In many respects I am at a loss to be able to quantify what makes a good ESC other than it must be reliable, on the other issues I rely on my own prejudices and i like shinny nice labels. Although I thought it is a question worth asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 john-what model is the esc for... ken Anderson...ne..1 electric dept/not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Posted by Erfolg on 26/02/2015 17:38:32: It is strange that you should mention switch mode becs. I have looked in the past to find such ESC and they only seem to exist at the very expensive end or very high ampage types. I then started to think, is the amount of wasted energy very significant, or is it a theoretical nicety where the saving is of less importance than say what propeller you use. It's not the amount of mah lost powering the servos, but the heat generated as a linear BEC just drops the voltage, so if you are pulling say 2A from a 3s battery and the Rx supply voltage is 5.5v then you are dropping (11.7 - 5.5)v x 2A = 12watts, lost as heat. If you are running a 4s battery then it would be (14.8 - 5.5)v x 2A = 18 watts. Hence the linear BEC usually limit the number of servos you can use to prevent the BEC unit from overheating. Also SBECs are available on lots of ESCs for less than £30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy.I Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Posted by Thomas Barwick on 26/02/2015 16:55:24: The ESC that you have linked John is a hobbywing that has been rebranded. I have used them faultlessly in all of my kits. And I have personally never had one that has never gone wrong (touching wood ). Erflog What I believe makes one esc better than another is purely down the the settings available . for example timings, some are in degrees which is more accurate and then some are just high medium and low. Also the more expensive esc have generally alot lower internal resistance than the cheaper ones. But the difference is on;y really noticable on higher power applications. or so I believe (just my pence worth Tom If it's rebranded Hobbywing isn't it the same as a the Turnigy Plush series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Posted by ken anderson. on 26/02/2015 15:01:41: hello john-never used that one but check out here -they have various 40 amp ones-for less dosh etc......be with you asap if you order now...in fact the 'basic' one for £12.00 is a goodin....the money you save will get us both a pint... ken Anderson...ne..1 ..... ESC's dept. Edited By ken anderson. on 26/02/2015 15:03:09 Another for the BRC / Robotbirds Basic range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 For my funfighter Ken, go's with this motor and 3s 2200mah lipo John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 ok john-the £12.00 I linked to in BRC will be more than enough for the motor/model...... ken Anderson...ne...1 saving dosh for JS dept. .................................................................... just looked its not even £12.00... Edited By ken anderson. on 26/02/2015 18:13:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Thanks Ken/all John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Now John has his problem sorted out, I feel able to ask this supplementary question. Frank from the figures you supply for a 3s Liopo which many of us use, it would seem by rounding your values a little, that for a 200w motor draw that the loss in efficiency is some 5%. I am guessing but I expect that the switching BEC has some losses, perhaps 1-3%. On that basis, the cost is not great, which could mean just a 2% difference.. However am i reading your calc correctly, if i draw 100W then the loss is approx 10%? Just had a thought so with my amp meter pluged in, the at rest value indicates what is used to both drive the Rx and the losses due to the ESC. Next time, which will be in the next week or so I will take note. Of course the next question then becomes, is this the max loss, where as the voltage drops, the efficiency improves as a percentage of the energy used? Edited By Erfolg on 26/02/2015 20:32:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Barwick Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Andy . Pretty similar but the k series is the newest run of the esc . But you are right they are both Hobbywing rebrands. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Posted by Erfolg on 26/02/2015 20:20:57: Frank from the figures you supply for a 3s Liopo which many of us use, it would seem by rounding your values a little, that for a 200w motor draw that the loss in efficiency is some 5%. I am guessing but I expect that the switching BEC has some losses, perhaps 1-3%. On that basis, the cost is not great, which could mean just a 2% difference.. Edited By Erfolg on 26/02/2015 20:32:30 Erfolg, it's got nothing to do with the loss in efficiency, it's the heat dissipation the voltage drop x the current to the rx and servos has to be lost in heat, 18w is the same as a small soldering iron, hence if you are running 2 or 3 servos in a lightly loaded model then a linear BEC would be fine, but if your running 4 or 5 digitals on a 4s set up then a linear BEC may well fry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Frank I am not trying to upset you, or anyone else. But, there is a but. I am trying to separate out theoretical claims from reality, and then trying to understand the implications. Last night, I did ponder why wait until you finish your current build, why not just check a few of your easy to reach models. In the past my main concern has been the watts drawn and the revs of the motor. The at rest current was never checked other than think in passing, hmmm, that is what it draws at rest, which was then promptly forgotton, even if partially registered. So i have checked three models which are broadly the same. the results from one are given as typical. 1 w 0.1 A, @ 11.9v or 1 mah. Which is a long way from 12w. All the controllers are the HK Blue series @ 20-40 Amp. To me it does not look like anything to worry about, or is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's only when your servos are working will they pull any current and that depends on how many, the size of the control surface and how far you deflect them. For instance I was flying my Miniblade glider today which has 6 small servos, and while not actually measuring current, the resting voltage of the 2S life cell I was using to power it was 6.5v at rest but after flight my telemetry told me the lowest voltage was 5.4v, I'll check on my battery cycler what amps would cause that voltage drop. As I noted earlier if you have a lightly loaded model with say 3 or 4 servos then a linear BEC should be fine, but start adding flaps, retracts or doing 3D type flying then you may cause a linear BEC to get hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The descriptions given by HK of the Blue series ESCs of 30A & under are a ambiguous as to whether the BEC is linear or switching. However I'd say they were linear since the actual ESCs have "BEC" on the label whereas the 40A & over have "SBEC" on the label. Edited By PatMc on 27/02/2015 20:07:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I have been aware for some time that the output from the BEC on any ESC is of limited capability. Although now with familiarity i am less aware than I was initially. I am now getting the impression that the penalty of a switching BEC, is more related to the output capability than one of it always wasteful of energy, even when just sitting there driving the RX. I am not clear at all about the difference/implications between a 1s as compared to a 6s situation, other than most switching BECs seem to be limited to either 3s or sometimes 4s. It seems that the Linear BEC comes into its own when there is a heavy power requirement as when running lots of servos simultaneously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Posted by Erfolg on 28/02/2015 11:50:56: It seems that the Linear BEC comes into its own when there is a heavy power requirement as when running lots of servos simultaneously? No, it's the other way round. A linear BEC dissipates the lost energy as heat so is limited by that. The lower the input voltage the more servos a linear BEC can support, that's what Frank's posts were explaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yes, that is what I actually meant to write, rather than what I actually did. What I was really getting at is that for the lower power applications, the linear ESC works acceptably, from experience, in that there seems to be little heat generated from the operation of the servo side of things. Although it seems at a practical level that the linear ESC is OK for many applications, I am guessing that it must cost more to build a switching BEC? I only have one 4s model running on a Thrust ESC, out of interest I must see if I can see what type of BEC it has, as it is always very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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