Wingman Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 The farmer we rent our field from is selling up and retiring and has offered to sell us the patch. He hasn't given us a price yet but it's about an acre and a half. Has anybody here been in the same situation and if so how did it work out? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Mark Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hello Wingman. Go for it the club have nothing to lose by owning their land. I was involved in the purchase of our local village hall and it was funded by the land fund Scotland. I know that buying your flying field is different from a village hall but the land fund criteria for funding is the same, you have to show community and club support and fill in some forms! The whole process took around six months and was stress free. Hope this helps James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Green Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Wingman, a couple of observations. Do you currently have planning permission for change of use to fly there and what happens if you ever get a noise complaint and are asked to cease flying. I agree owning your own patch sounds great in practice it is fraught with danger IMO For the record we don't own our field and I've never been involved in purchase, but have had to deal with planning. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 If you are able to buy do make sure you also get the rights to over fly the surrounding area as 1 1/2 acres isn't a big area to fly in . Also if you have been at the site for the last ten years or more without any restrictions being applied by the local council apply for a Certificate of Lawful Use (CLU) which is planning permission . If you don't and a new neigbour doesn't like you there or complains about noise they can quite easily get you closed down or get severe restrictions put on your flying times . You will still have to keep noise to an acceptable level but the council wont be able to close you down. Good luck and hope it all goes well . Edited By Engine Doctor on 20/06/2015 08:36:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben goodfellow 1 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 ED , do you need rights to fly in airspace of adjacent land . i only ask as ive got planning on my home and was told by various sorces my land is my land but ive no rights to airspace above it same as any other land owner . not picking, a genuine point i was wondering about? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 James - that fund sounds interesting thanx although I suspect we won't have 6 months grace. Andy we do have planning permission, just renewed, for use of the site as a model flying field and we've been there over 10 years so we're part of the scenery. As for noise we've had the odd complaint over the years, nothing serious, but we now have a socking great wind turbine 200 metres from the field which produces lots of noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu knowles Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 IMHO, the pro's and con's are much the same as for buying v renting a house.....and although I am firmly in one camp, there are always alternate opinions. The rest is as hard, or as easy as you make it. With some positive forward thinking, substantial sums are achievable and you have a sale-able asset at the end of it. I doubt that you would ever convert an existing club as there are always those who begrudge paying even a minimum to use a substantial facility but within a group there may well be sufficient forward looking individuals who would buy shares in the land. If you are an established group who has used the site for some time I would buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 As you have planning permission, buy it. It makes you a permanent body, rather than a bunch of like minded people sharing a space til someone tells you to go somewhere else. Re airspace adjacent landowners can't object to overflying. They can object to the flying disturbing their use of their land, ie spooking livestock, and can certainly place restrictions on recovering aircraft off their land. But in practice starting with goodwill and a bottle, and a promise to make good losses this is not a problem. Old club of mine, Woodspring Wings owns its site, the treasurer described the organisation as a small property company that flys model aircraft as a side shoot. Perhaps you should touch base with them as it does get a a bit different being the owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spice Cat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 No problem Spice - first left off the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Mark Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Wingman. Don't let the time factor of securing funding from the Land Fund put you off. It will take time for the owner to sell and he will make more cash selling to the club rather than waiting for your lease to expire so he can sell with vacant possession. Like I said earlier grab this opportunity, you will never regret it. If the club goes pear shape in the future your investment in the land will always keep it value! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 One of the differences comes with who owns the site. There have been cases where the original members (shareholders) had long gone to their maker, and their grandchildren threw the current members off, to build a housing estate. Comes down to club constitution as to how the clubs assets are owned. Not complicated but the members have to decide if they are buying an asset for their family, or for their hobby. This is not the same as spending money, as the club can repay its members its purchase price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Yep Donald I reckon that aspect could be a minefield given our location in the one party state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spice Cat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Posted by Wingman on 20/06/2015 11:52:12: No problem Spice - first left off the road Sounds like a dream come true! Good luck with it and keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Posted by ben goodfellow 1 on 20/06/2015 08:51:03: ED , do you need rights to fly in airspace of adjacent land . i only ask as ive got planning on my home and was told by various sorces my land is my land but ive no rights to airspace above it same as any other land owner . not picking, a genuine point i was wondering about? . Ben, the CAA "owns" all airspace - what can be done in that airspace is down to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Long before I joined, back in 1982 our club bought a piece of land - some members put up loans and a mortgage made up the rest. The benefits have been immense although there were problems with noise complaints in the early days from a couple of individuals. I understand that these were exacerbated by some poor discipline which resulted in some fairly stringent rules to curb them. Over time, these rules have become fully accepted and are not really draconian although they were the subject of some unrest at the time. In terms of ownership, a club can't own land! The solution was to put it into the names of trustees - which is where things could have gone a little pear-shaped... A few years ago, I was looking through some club papers and started wondering about the whereabouts of the deeds (which were located in some old paperwork in the possession of the treasurer. In doing so, I discovered that the two trustees were no longer members of the club - one had passed away and the other (with a not uncommon name) had left the club - and moved to an unknown address. To cut a long story short, with the aid of the internet, I located him (living a couple of hundred yards from me!) and arranged to transfer title to 4 new trustees. We now have a standing item on the AGM agenda to receive a report from the trustees to avoid a repeat of the situation - and in the constitution, the trustees now add a level of security against any irresponsible actions from a rogue committee. We also had certified copies of the deeds made to be held by the chairman, treasurer and secretary with the originals in safe keeping. The results of the purchase are that the club has enjoyed immunity from the whims of a landowner for a third of a century, has been able to invest in some decent equipment and maintain the site without excessive membership fees while building some meaningful contingency funds. I think that if you have the means and opportunity it makes perfect sense - especially as you have established use of the site. One thing that you will need to think about in your situation is access - think about what happens if the owner of the rest of the land your patch is located on decides to limit access - do you have a direct route from a public right of way or could you be held to ransom by a future purchaser? Edited By Martin Harris on 20/06/2015 23:35:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thanks for that Martin, I didn't know that the club as such wouldn't be able to own the land so that's something else to sort out. We're only on page one of this saga so all that kind of info is very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 As I said earlier Wingman, touch base with Woodspring Wings, and perhaps they know more land owning clubs, and get a feel for the differences. It's not difficult, just needs a different mindset, like the difference between owning and renting a house. First thing first though, how much does the farmer want. Re access, normal practice when you buy land is to get a deed of something or other granting perpetual access accross a third party's' land, if you don't have direct access from the public highway. No deed, no purchase. These are the things your solicitor sorts out, another of the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wingman, One of the clubs I belong to found itself in a very similar situation some years ago. All the members put up about £200 each in order to secure a mortgage, and the club had to be reformed as a limited company. However, due to astute management by our committee, we managed to obtain all sorts of grants from both the EU and DEFRA which meant that the site paid for itself, and we all got our money back within a couple of years! Not only that, but when Network Rail needed to access the nearby railway to upgrade the power and signalling, their only access was over our land. The income from that provided a nice bonus to the club coffers AND they built us nice new fences and gates when they left! A win-win situation! Points to note: Make sure you get planning permission! However, if you can prove that you have been using the site for ten years (check this with the BMFA) without problems, I believe the Council cannot refuse planning permission (Grandfather rights). To get a mortgage you will need to convert the club to a limited company. You can get "set-aside" and various other payments from the EU and DEFRA that should make your site largely self-financing. If you want to PM me, I'll put you in touch with our committee. Our chairman is a font of knowledge on this subject! The BMFA will know all about it as well. Good luck with your venture! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 It sounds like the bmfa needs to contact a few clubs that have done this and take some advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Donald, Peter thanks for the offers and I'll certainly take you up on them if the venture proves to be complicated either with the landowner or the members. As I said before I'm certainly liking the sound of the grant availability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Posted by ben goodfellow 1 on 20/06/2015 08:51:03: ED , do you need rights to fly in airspace of adjacent land . i only ask as iv'e got planning on my home and was told by various sources my land is my land but iv'e no rights to airspace above it same as any other land owner . not picking, a genuine point i was wondering about? . Hello Ben . Sorry I agree ,what I said is wrong , "Agreement" would be a better way to describe what I meant .As you rightly say "your land is your land" and I wouldn't want all and sundry walking all over my crops to retrieve a model. But it needs to be written into any deeds as does access across another persons land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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