Marcin Gorecki Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hi, I'm preparing for my A-certificate and I wanted to take it on my E-flite Apprentice S 15e, but I have doubts about the Safe mode on it. Do you know anyone who did their exam on this aircraft? I'm slightly worried about the stability modes on it. There are three stability modes on it - beginner, intermediate and experienced. Is the experienced mode (no take off or landing help, unlimited flight envelope) legal for the exam? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't know the model but as long as it is over 1kg and there is no stabilisation active in any way, then no reason you can't take the test with it. Edit: A quick Google suggests that the AS3X mode is active in Experienced Mode which will disbar it from the test. If this is the case, could you replace the receiver - perhaps even borrow one - for the test? I would be happy with the Panic mode being available as long as it wasn't used, when I'd have to fail you - in the same way as using any power during the deadstick would. Edited By Martin Harris on 24/08/2015 14:00:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slopetrashuk Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 It isnt legal. You will have to change the receiver. The AS3X system runs all the time, damping the effect of wind turbulence in the roll, pitch and yaw axis. It is therefore an 'autopilot' making corrections on your behalf. The panic button returns the model to straight and level flight and is again an autopilot. neither is allowed in the BMFA Fixed wing tests. Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 As Slopetrashuk says - replace the stock receiver with the SAFE technology in it with a standard "dumb" transmitter and use it that way - to be safe take the RX removed from the apprentice with you to prove to the examiner that there is no electronic wizardry on board - the flying weight of the Apprentice is 1390g so its over the 1kg limit Do that and there is no reason why you should not use it for the A test at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcin Gorecki Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Slopetrashuk, Dave - thank you very much. I'll replace the receiver soon, so I can train without it before exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Early next year the BMFA plan to introduce a new proficiency certificate which will permit the use of stability systems such as SAFE & AS3X. Where this fits in with an individual's or club's desires or needs is of course yet to be determined but as an examiner I await the outcome with interest. I can envisage that some newcomers to the hobby will go through their modelling life always with some artificial aid to their flying, whilst others may adopt the assistance later as their physical & mental faculties deteriorate. Good thing too - it's a hobby, let's get & keep them flying. There are, and will remain, plenty of challenges for those that want them, but if you just want to pootle around there will be many more opportunities than just doing so with an inherently stable model or on a buddy box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcin Gorecki Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Percy, thanks for there reassurance John, as a newcomer to this hobby I welcome the "proficiency certificate" which allows stabilization. I agree - this is a hobby and it should be fun. I fly multirotors as well and I met few people who didn't bother with BMFA, because of rules they found too strict. I've heard once: "I haven't spent £800 on a gps quad to fly it in manual mode". Yet those people would clearly benefit from learning safety rules enforced by BMFA. I'll still pass the A-certificate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howes Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Posted by John Lee on 25/08/2015 13:24:02: Early next year the BMFA plan to introduce a new proficiency certificate which will permit the use of stability systems such as SAFE & AS3X. ... just doing so with an inherently stable model or on a buddy box. Firstly, about darn time the BMFA woke up to the 21st century. Secondly, when would you want an inherently unstable model? Sounds more like a poor design. Safe tech. and AS3X are making the hobby more accesible and I think the use of such aids should be encouraged. After all, few drivers would consider buying a car without ABS, SRS, traction control, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Me i'm no expert on aerodynamics, but I reckon you want to do away with the stability to a degree when you want a model or full size to be more manoeuvrable, sounds like more fun and a more capable design to me Not what you want on a trainer, but later on ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Posted by John Howes on 01/09/2015 16:27:38: Posted by John Lee on 25/08/2015 13:24:02: Early next year the BMFA plan to introduce a new proficiency certificate which will permit the use of stability systems such as SAFE & AS3X. ... just doing so with an inherently stable model or on a buddy box. Firstly, about darn time the BMFA woke up to the 21st century. Secondly, when would you want an inherently unstable model? Sounds more like a poor design. Safe tech. and AS3X are making the hobby more accesible and I think the use of such aids should be encouraged. After all, few drivers would consider buying a car without ABS, SRS, traction control, etc. The A test is an "achievement" - in order to demonstrate this achievement there must be some limits otherwise it has little value. If the BMFA introduce a "stabilised" test, that must be a recognition that it is a different skill set - a parallel would possibly be the automatic driving test... I suspect that many clubs will not recognise this as a qualification to fly unstabilised models unsupervised - in the same way that a further driving test is required before you may drive a manual car. There again, what do I know - I prefer cars without electronic driving aids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Posted by John Howes on 01/09/2015 16:27:38: Secondly, when would you want an inherently unstable model? Sounds more like a poor design. Erm to make it highly manoeuvrable perhaps? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 - but if it was inherently unstable then you'd need electronic stabilisation to make it flyable! (as in some modern fighters). I suspect you are looking for reduced stability Dave - when I'd be thoroughly in agreement . John, successful aerobatic designs have very little inherent stability, hence the popularity of mid-wing aircraft with little or no dihedral, short tail moment etc. Edited By Martin Harris on 01/09/2015 18:27:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Isn't a conventional heli unstable? Gyros have been used on their tail rotors for years, but as far as I know they are permitted for BMFA tests. Chalk and cheese, I know, I find helis hard enough even with a gyro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Can't see the need for a proficiency standard for fixed wing, stabilised models. When a beginner has learned to fly the model safely and no longer needs the benefit of auto stab or 'panic mode' to keep the 'plane in one piece, then the time has come to fly without help anyway. and simply takes the 'A' under the existing rules. How would an Acrowot or similar benefit from auto stab? Edited By Cuban8 on 01/09/2015 19:03:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Too many Johns on here, I keep thinking you're talking about me John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Even the Marcins get called Martin so you think you're confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brunt Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Hi everyone. I see this topic was considered quite some time since, but has been brought to my attention currently. i have the Apprentice STS, and have discovered that I cannot take the Cert A with it because of the AS3X mode being active. Can anyone steer me towards a replacement receiver to fit into my plane to allow me to train for the Cert A test with my plane. Thanks in advance for any help....Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 A good replacement would be the Spectrum AR620 - £36 from Webbies - bulletproof, simple installation, no bind plug needed, full range, compact and can be used in many different models. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul devereux Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 It is a strange thing, but I bought a 27 in span cub type model with SAFE to fly in a small field. (I didn't want SAFE but they all seem to come with in built in). I find it virtually uncontrollable with the two trainer settings, but it flies okay-ish on the experienced mode. But still not great. There seems to be a time lag between inputting controls and the plane reacting. It maybe I have a dodgy model though, or it may just be me. I find larger heavier models much easier to fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brunt Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, leccyflyer said: A good replacement would be the Spectrum AR620 - £36 from Webbies - bulletproof, simple installation, no bind plug needed, full range, compact and can be used in many different models. that sounds lie what I need then, i will look it up, thankyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dorricott 1 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I've been down the Apprentice route as a beginner and only felt really in control when I swopped out the AS3X Rx for a standard one . I was not the only one to find that either the Apprentice is a really forgiving beast anyway , nicer to fly with a normal receiver anyway . It doesn't bite or stall unless your really inept and I've often wondered why it had AS3X in the first place . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tee Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I have several Volontex models with 3 position gyros but I find the opposite to Paul. OK in first two gyro modes but put the Tx switch in the off position and it becomes a real handful to fly, just breathing on the stick move the model violently. Cant adjust the movement on the control horns as easily as a "normal" model. John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 You can reduce your servo end points on your Transmitter John. Typically a percentage to get say 50% - 80% travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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