Peter Miller Retrospective - Build-off Challenge 2016

[Jimbo565]

[Martyn K]

I would suggest that you don't worry about cutting wing ribs. For a model of this size it would only take a couple of hours work to cut a set of ribs out for a model - if you don't have a copier use the pin prick method or (as I do) use carbon paper and draw round them.

I remember having to cut 60-70 identical wing ribs (sometimes more) for F1A's back in the 70's - now that was a real chore and they were very thin and *had* to be identical.

Fuselage formers I have more of a problem with

Martyn

[Peter Miller]

Just be careful and check that the copier does not stretch the ribs.

[kc]

Am I wrong in thinking that Model Markings do the graphics for many of Peter's designs and that this contest will probably boost their sales? If this boosts sales then perhaps Model Markings should provide the trophy or prize!

Prize or no prize it is important we celebrate Peter Miller's contribution to aeromodelling design.

[Bob Cotsford]

Odd isn't it - ribs I find a pain in the backside, formers - no problem. Especially as it's two elliptical wings so the sandwich method wont work.

[Erfolg]

Is this a mass build, or something else?

[Peter Miller]

Posted by kc on 30/10/2015 11:37:14:

Am I wrong in thinking that Model Markings do the graphics for many of Peter's designs and that this contest will probably boost their sales? If this boosts sales then perhaps Model Markings should provide the trophy or prize!

Prize or no prize it is important we celebrate Peter Miller's contribution to aeromodelling design.

Yes, you are wrong! IN fact Tim has done a beautiful set of markings for a model that refused to fly properly and so never was published, The Swamp Rat rat and my Peyret Mauboussin Type 11 which has not yet been published so I don't think he is going to make a killing out of this.

99% of my lettering is done by cheapy Vinyl lettering suppliers on EBay. Sorry Tim!!

[kc]

Ribs are a pain as Bob says. Obviously because they must all be the same ( or same taper) whilst formers can be quite a lot bigger or smaller without affecting the result. It would be so nice if ribs only were available rather than having to buy the complete set of CNC parts.

[Martyn K]

Posted by Erfolg on 30/10/2015 11:44:04:

Is this a mass build, or something else?

I think that its the Mass Build masquerading as something else..

M

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

Hi Bob, just read your PM and thought I would answer it here so every has the info, I can cut a set of ribs for pretty much anything that is asked for, but bear in mind I have to get hold of a 1:1 scan of the plan, redraw everything in CAD before I can start cutting, this would would put me up there in the £20- odd bracket as well and if everyone picked a different PM model, thats a lot of work, if however 1 model was chosen I would be more than happy to do the CAD work for free and the cutting at a shared rate, saving quite a significant amount, but personally I can't see everyone agreeing on one design.

If on the other hand anyone else wanted to volunteer to produce the CAD files and send them to me I would again do the cutting for minimal costs, the CD work is the killer, time wise, as I have so much on the go at the moment I would really struggle.

[John F]

Posted by Martyn K on 30/10/2015 12:20:11:

Posted by Erfolg on 30/10/2015 11:44:04:

Is this a mass build, or something else?

I think that its the Mass Build masquerading as something else..

M

I think you're right. I have PM'd Tim to see what the situation is with this.

[Chris Barlow]

Or something else masquerading as the mass build?

The 2016 mass build is still running seperately and is currently at the registering interest phase. Next step would be the start of the voting for the designer in a week or so.

The timing couldnt be worse really as this may deminish interest in the voting for the MB even if the chosen designer is PM.

[John F]

I have PM'd you Chris.

[Tim C]

Summarising comments and opinions so far.

1. Its stimulating debate which can only be a good thing, I have set out a suggested framework for a shared ideal which has had a largely positive response, as with all social media its down to the 'posters' to decide on consensus

2. Is it a Mass Build in another name, maybe, but that is up to the forum to decide! This can run as a separate activity or become the Mass Build, My observation is that The Mass Build Thread has gone quiet, and only some 15% have said yes, if there is a cohort that wants to share Peter Miller builds, even just a handful then this is a framework that can coordinate activity and provide a purpose that may encourage others to have a go or even just restart moribund projects. Both can coexist.

3. Its not tied in any way to GA, is non geographic, anybody from any part of the world can involve themselves, selection of a close date before GA is just an opportunity for those attending GA to network share there builds and watch other fly

[kc]

OK, I stand corrected by Peter! I withdraw what I said.

If someone wants to present a prize of some sort then that's fine but the main thing is to have a large number of models to Peter's designs at one show. Frankly if there are no prizes and no rules there would probably be more models on show. Any judging or competetive element will probably deter the ordinary modeller from bringing along his everyday hack to the event. But it's really these everyday models which would show the popularity of Peter's designs and their flying qualities. ( only models that fly well get to be old and tatty!) So lets see as large a turnout as possible.

[Martyn K]

Perhaps a booby prize for the roughest PM model as well. I would qualify for that, my models always look 5 years old before they have even flown.

Martyn

 

(edit - sorry is the word b**by allowed)

Edited By Martyn K on 30/10/2015 13:34:27

[John F]

Posted by Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 30/10/2015 13:18:47:

2. Is it a Mass Build in another name, maybe,

There is no maybe about it and considering that you cannot be bothered to reply to a PM I would assume that you intended to build whatever you wanted and this is the manner in which you chose to do it.

Might I suggest a PM conversation before you continue to translate the Mass Build vote?

Edited By John F on 30/10/2015 13:50:15

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

Further to my post and following a discussion with Peter, I am happy to announce that Peter is willing to supply me with any DXF files that I need to produce laser cut ribs and formers. Most models will be covered in this.

There are some exceptions though, in fair play to RCM&E (and anyone else who may already supply laser kits) I will not produce any parts for commercially available items. So if RCME supply a laser cut kit for a design you want, I will not do it, and Peter will not supply the files for any of these models either so please don't ask in the nature of fair play.

[Richard Harris]

Posted by Erfolg on 30/10/2015 11:44:04:

Is this a mass build, or something else?

Carl,

With confirmation from the powers above this is not the Mass Build but a seperate competition, it is just bad timing unfortunately which is sure to effect geniune Mass builders.

No reason why we can't carry on with the MB 2016 and try and get some newbie builders envolved which is what it's all about

Rich

[Martyn K]

While I agree with the sentiments, there isn't enough interest to have 2 separate events. I think the original MB idea has gone a bit stale - we are not exactly being flooded with suggestions are we? Or with outraged e-mails and posts from 'Mass Builder of Tunbridge Wells'

Personally, I like the idea of a designer theme and if (for example) Boddo was chosen next year, I may be tempted with a 1/4 scale Pup or similar.

There are many designers we could choose from, I just think that the Peter Miller idea is the perfect designer to start this. In fact you could run it for the next 150 years without risk of repetition.

[Erfolg]

I do really think that this is potentially unwelcome distraction.

It is such a pity that potentially two birds could have been killed with one stone, if the SWAMP RAT had been put forward or was the featured model on this thread. The Swamp Rat has two or maybe three very desirable features. A simple optimised build, a little more complicated than a sheet wing, yet in this case a simple wing. The model itself seems to be a fine flier for novice fliers. Yet is an attractive model. If anything says less is more, in aeromodelling terms, it is the Swamp Rat.

As it is I am hanging on for the mass build.

Edited By Erfolg on 30/10/2015 17:16:08

[John F]

I don't think the Mass Build is stale at all, Martyn. The intention was always to start with "are you interested" then choose a designer from there on.

Mass Build Designer vote poll and thread is up.

Edited By John F on 30/10/2015 16:58:43

[Chris Barlow]

If this isn't intended to be the 2016 mass build then it should be moved to one of the topics under the workshop heading. There's even a topic in there dedicated to Peter Miller designs!

It's a great shame Tim couldn't wait for the voting for the 2016 mass build designer to be decided first. If the chosen designer turned out to be Peter Miller then maybe his competition could have been tagged onto it at that point?

[Chris Barlow]

Posted by Martyn K on 30/10/2015 15:47:25:

While I agree with the sentiments, there isn't enough interest to have 2 separate events. I think the original MB idea has gone a bit stale - we are not exactly being flooded with suggestions are we? Or with outraged e-mails and posts from 'Mass Builder of Tunbridge Wells'

Personally, I like the idea of a designer theme and if (for example) Boddo was chosen next year, I may be tempted with a 1/4 scale Pup or similar.

There are many designers we could choose from, I just think that the Peter Miller idea is the perfect designer to start this. In fact you could run it for the next 150 years without risk of repetition.

I too like the idea of a designer based theme and my vote would probably be for Peter Miller since I don't think I've built one yet.

However, in the interests and tradition of the mass build surely the builders themselves should be given the opportunity to vote.

If you want a Peter Miller design for the 2016 Mass Build then vote for Peter Miller in the voting thread!

[kc]

The idea here is to give recognition to one of the most prolific model plane designers. Nobody minds which of Peter Miller's designs is built, shown and flown..

The basis of a Mass Build is that many people build the same model to give guidance to the newer builders. A side effect is that everyone sees the individual ideas about the finer points of buuilding and installation. Also any problem areas are overcome by the early builders. It seems probable that a Miller design might be chosen this year so achieving both aims - Mass Build and PM Fly in.   83 percent for PM so far.

 

 

Edited By kc on 30/10/2015 17:25:27