Tomtom39 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Posted by kc on 30/10/2015 17:22:58: The idea here is to give recognition to one of the most prolific model plane designers. Nobody minds which of Peter Miller's designs is built, shown and flown.. The basis of a Mass Build is that many people build the same model to give guidance to the newer builders. A side effect is that everyone sees the individual ideas about the finer points of buuilding and installation. Also any problem areas are overcome by the early builders. It seems probable that a Miller design might be chosen this year so achieving both aims - Mass Build and PM Fly in. 83 percent for PM so far. Edited By kc on 30/10/2015 17:25:27 The exact point of the Mass Build kc, to chose a designer and celebrate their achievements, rather than be dictated to outside of the Mass Build ethos which is what this thread was doing. The Mass Build votes are here: **LINK** The Mass Build discussion is here: **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I do appriciate celebrating a single designer (especially PM)but what about other forum users ideas? (if there has been a vote on this I do appologise). As far as I can see there has been one vote and that was to get the general feeling of another mass build for next year. The next stage 'normally' is to discuss what posibilities and ideas there are, and then onto the chosen model/models. Presuming that a single designer is what Mass Builders want is a bit selfish, we should discuss and vote so that all prospect Mass Builders at least can give their views. If the single designer is chosen then fair play, that is the majorities choice which should produce the most amount of mass builders and in turn will help those out who are dipping their toes into the building game (which was David Gilders idea back in 2011). It comes across to me that things have already been decided, this rubs people up the wrong way. Rich Just to be clear it makes no difference to me what I build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I agree Rich, but I wouldn't hold your breath, I put an idea forward (whether good or bad) but not a dickie bird has been said, Tim has put an idea forward and been shot down, i'll just wait untill the dust has settled and be dictated to what I have to build if I can be bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Dylan, I am not shooting down Tim's idea, infact I think it is quite a good one. I just feel everyone should have at least a say and a vote to an idea in principle, nothing more. We should be encouraging newbies into the Mass Build bringing forward (and listening) to their ideas etc. But these are just my thoughts and I mean no dissrespect to anyone. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I didn't mean you Rich, I was just refering to all the negative vibe so far on this thread towards it, a discussion/debate is healthy, not just knocking someone for making a suggestion, like I say, I'll return when the dust settles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The feathers really are flying over this. The mass build and fly-in is for those that can get to the event; well i have no chance unless flying halfway round the word comes down to fifty quid. Build a Peter Miller model of our own choosing in conjunction with the mass build has a lot of merit. After all it can be international, which can only be good for RCM&E and it may get bigger in the years ahead. wo knows, maybe once i tell my clubmates what i am building and why one of them may be interested too, and all because of RCM&E. Im in, now which one? eany meany miny mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 If I have been keeping up to date on the various threads surrounding this topic it started with some person's excellent idea of celebrating PM's enormous contribution to the hobby over more years than I would dare to suggest to him. This idea became linked with an event at GA and this further developed into suggestions about a PM theme for the mass build. I think it is a shame that so much rancour is now developing over such a worthy (to coin the title of one of the threads) cause. In my view, the first voting round as posed did not do very much. There are die-hard mass builders who will try to join in regardless. There are the ones who say no for their own reasons. That's fine. Then there are plenty who might if something sparks their interest. Much like elections you have to give the floating voters something that is going to entice them to make a choice. That's fine too. I think the Mass Build is a great idea and will happen in some form or another but this year has been muted compared with the previous two years. Even great institutions need freshening up and Tim's idea did just that and good for him. He has plenty of support. It is a sad forum where ideas are given bad treatment and a big disincentive for others who may turn out to have even greater ideas. I hope it is just a coincidence that two people most singled out have commercial interests. There personal contribution to the hobby is undeniable. So now we are voting on designers but I haven't seen the trend of the voting that has always been a feature of other polls. Again, it seemed like the majority of people who have expressed an opinion are in favour of PM as the designer. I am very biased because he is my choice. I will build his designs anyway but if another designer is chosen in the poll, that's going to be ok with me as well. It is hard to see why there needs to be so much division. There is the Mass Build and there is an exciting suggestion about a change in format that has also had much support. Tim's idea doesn't have to apply only to PM. It could apply to any designer chosen democratically. If we stick with the idea that this is a celebration of the designer's work and contribution the GA location works well as a focal point. People could bring along any existing model to celebrate across the years and add these to the new builds. This should make a very interesting variety. The competition element is a brilliant way to bring inspire overseas modellers who never get the opportunity to pinpoint GA and those who naturally have a competitive streak (but not necessarily in flying) can have their day of glory. So to put my angle on it. We could choose a designer (to celebrate not argue about). Have a competition along Tim's lines on any of his or her designs and have another vote amongst these designs for a single model for a mass build within a wider envelope. Erfolg might even get to have his Swamp Rat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Been offline for a while, seems to be more threads than builders now, all very confusing It's reckoned to be a mass build and a bit of fun, seems crazy to me we can't do this in one thread. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I agree completely Levanter, the whole idea of celebrating a modellers contribution is a fantastic one, and Tim's idea breaths new life into the mass build and I can't see why the mass build can't follow his format, it gives builders a longer period in which to get something complete, and the cut off date for the "competition" part of it works, but if you decide you don't want to be part of the competition but still want to be part of the mass build, that cut off doesn't even come into it. The thing I don't understand is if both MB idea an Tim's idea are one of the same (except for dates) why people have to argue about it, and thats the part I want no part of, I have cast my vote in favour of PM, so lets see where the vote goes, roll out our plans and roll up our sleeves and get balsa bashing, THAT'S what it's all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm still a bit befuddled about how this situation has come about! In the Mass build 2016 topic the Mass build discussion had started, John stuck his head over the parapet to over see it and voting for interest started. In another topic an appealing idea was suggested to celebrate Peter Miller as a designer by building one of his designs. Suddenly the mass build was pushed aside and the Peter Miller Retrospective Build Off posted in the Mass Build 2016 topic, giving the impression to many that the 2016 mass build had been decided and this was what we would be building! No votes, discussion or choice. Regardless of why it happened, the timing and excecution was very bad. There is no reason why if PM is the chosen designer of the mass build that the PMRBOC couldn't run in conjuction and potentially double the participents. If PM wasn't the chosen designer the PMRBOC could have run on it's own. As it is currently it looks like PM as a designer is favourite for the 2016 Mass Build but I'm now concerned that some people may boycot one topic in favour for the other. In the interest of all us builders this would be counter productive. I would ask that comments on this thread be reserved for a couple of weeks until the MB voting is concluded then, if the current trend continues we should be building together to produce a lot of PM models! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C. Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I get a bit confused with the two threads but that is nothing unusual. I am probably one of the slowest builders around, started a PM miss Lizzy 12 months ago and still working on her. Now if I have this right I can with one model (if I get my act together and finish her) be part of the mass build and the build off, two activities for one model. That's a win win for me, I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I am at a loss as to where the Challenge is? What ever the idea is (and it is not very clear to me), why was it not feed into the mass build thread. The (extra?) stage of canvassing for interest in the MB concept, is not only bureaucratic, it has not enthused many. Probably because it lacks a vision, just a vague action. Personally I see the MB as one of the elements that differentiates the Greenacres fly in from other fly ins. Rather than the event being an excuse for a small cadre of fliers to get out their big models, it provides a mechanism that focuses the event onto ordinary modellers. On that basis i believe in the MB. This present proposal seems not to contribute to a popular model being selected by all potentially having an input in the selection process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Has the dust settled yet? We have the 2016 MB result. There was a resounding vote for Ballerina and much excellent work being done on electric conversion and some interesting details. All MBs require a designer so although it is great that Peter was chosen, the seeds were sown a good time previously from a growing movement to celebrate Peter's designs and contribution to aero-modelling over a very long period and in such a no nonsense manner. There have been plenty of people interested in the various ideas put forward to celebrate these achievements and it seems plenty of people who would be interested in building a model that was not chosen for the MB. Additionally there must be loads of well loved and well used veterans from his drawing board that could be brought for display, flying or otherwise, at Greenacres. We could have photo thread of PM models worldwide. To get the ball rolling again I would like to ask whether it would be possible to MyTimeMedia to publish a Catalogue of Peter's designs (accepting that many actual drawings were published by Traplet and others) perhaps with a photo, the basic information as shown in the Data File and if possible, an anecdote about the characteristics, surprises, vices etc from the man himself. This would really put his work into perspective. Let's get back on the tribute theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 There is a nearly up to date list here Even I can't supply photos for many of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Levanter, I agree with the PM tribute theme wholeheartedly. there are free flight, control line, rc , probably rubber power, jetex/gasprin but my knowlege is lacking. As for P.Miller, that thinning silver haired dude. I would like to see many Appreciators (is that word in the dictionary?) build, display, fly and photograph a model of his that you made, successful or not. keep momentum Levanter3. cheers bbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Ashby Moderator Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hi Levanter, Whilst I think all of us agree that celebrating Peter's designs is important, to collate an entire catalogue would be very difficult seeing as MTM doesn't own many of the plans and generally it would not be feasible. This doesn't though, stop us from celebrating Peter's designs through other ways and I would agree that its important that we continue to do so. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well, as Ballerina doesn't float my boat I'm still planning on a PM tribute in the form of a Melody bipe. ASP52FS in stock, and a lazy laser cut kit of bits ordered from SLEC. I've even got some spokes to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Is it just me who thinks that resurrecting this particular thread is not very helpful to the Mass Build? Obviously your opinion may well vary but this thread is what caused the great caffuffle at the start of this 2016 Mass Build and will only go to confuse people even further than it did in the first place and as such I really should ask whether or not this should be locked? Edited By John F on 03/12/2015 14:52:02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 While I'm not sure we want to stiffle discussion by locking this thread - I do tend to agree with you John. We certainly would not wish to see something like this lure experienced builders away from the MB where their mentorship skills are very necessary. I also sincerely doubt that the appetite exists for two separate events at the same time that overlap in this way. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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