Cliff Bastow Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I have thought about one of these for quite a while but have been put of by some of the bad press. However I saw that they were on special offer for £90 and as it was my birthday I decided to get one, so my wife and kids obliged. Edited By Cliff Bastow on 05/11/2015 15:57:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Bernard Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Cliff - I got bought one for my birthday and was really pleased with it. It looks great in the air. Unfortunately I crashed it on my first flight through my own fault. I hate seeing scale models being flown full chat and I found the Lanc would fly at around 1/2 to 2/3 throttle and look reasonable. Unfortunately on the turn into the downwind leg of the landing circuit I had it too slow and it tip stalled - so near the ground remember to keep the speed up! Amazing what some Gorilla glue can do and she should be back in the air shortly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 First impressions? well mixed to be honest. It does look good when assembled but there were a few problems along the way. The first thing i noticed while it was still in its box is that the stickers for the squadron codes have been put on the wrong sides so the registration no is in the wrong place! A small point but annoying. I did try to remove them but it will pull the paint of so I have decided to leave well alone. Now the more important problems. The main wing carbon spar is 5" to short and so can slide about inside its tube in the wings! It can come almost right out of one wing. I replaced it with a longer one. One prop adaptor has not been tapped so I could not fit the spinner. I will have to borrow a m3 tap from work. and now the main problem, the elevator linkage is appalling! The servo was not glued in its box and slopping about, The push rods bind very badly in the outers, so much so that the servo was struggling to move them and was very slow. I re glued the servo and removed the push rod outers so that the push rods now just move in the holes through the foam. They are much smoother now but how long it will be before they wear away the foam only time will tell. There is no spar in the tail plane at all and I have heard of tail plane failures in flight so I have added a carbon spar. One retract is mounted at a slight angle and they look very fragile and poorly mounted but I am considering removing them anyway to reduce the weight and try and improve the reported bad tip staling tendencies if flown to slow. If I do this I will also remove the over scale tail wheel and its steering servo to further reduce weight. I plan to build a launch dolly and belly land the model. I have set the ailerons with a slight reflex and set differential ailerons to try and help with the tip stalling. I considered cutting off the wing tips and reattaching them at a slight angle to help with this but will try flying it first to see what it is like. So all in all! some issues but it does look good once assembled. Only time will tell now and after all it was cheap so what can you expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 As Colin said keep the speed up, especially in the turns. The tip stall is instant and will take about 1 1/2 to 2 spins to recover! We had 3 in the air at the same time at Langar's last fly in and at one point 2 of them tip stalled almost at the same time! You can slow it down to a scale speed flying straight and into wind though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Thanks for that Cliff - I love a Lanc and have it on my scratch build list. This had caught my eye a few times but reading your report I will hang on for the balsa bashing. I have built a few launch dollys - none were better than hand-launching! Good luck with getting it sorted and glad to see you are well again. Cheers, Simon Edited By mightypeesh on 05/11/2015 21:34:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 MIne flew very well on its first flight................till it snapped into a stall and spin at a rate it really should not have while flying straight and level at speed downwind up 200 feet or so. Yes, it was a little bit gusty, but it should have handled it easily, and it did not. I saved it well enough for it to be usable ongoing, and I have, but quickly lost interest in playing russian roulette with the ground. Ultimately, the HK model as supplied lacks the basic stability and flight worthiness to be anything other than a nasty bite you in the tail pain in the butt. Yes, warping washout into the tips, fixed transparent flaps, etc, etc are possible and make it better, but its still THE most unpredictable thing I have ever had the misfortune to fly. (and that is saying something!!) Spoken from a background of forty plus years RC flying and some extremely exotic sensitive machinery. "it was cheap so what can you expect".................I expected it to fly reasonably well for a warbird multi (a type I'm of long experience)............it failed. I'd say avoid....................... Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 06/11/2015 11:33:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Russell 2 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Mine needed a lot of lead in the nose to get it right. If you check the cg well and fly it in with power on the approach it flys quite well. However the tip stall is very violent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Oh dear what have I done? An even more serious problem has come to light, Whilst it was stood on my workbench awaiting final finishing I noticed the stbd wing has a distinct bow and twist in it! As can be imagined I am not very happy, this is a poor product to say the least. not fit for purpose in my opinion. I am now awaiting results of my warranty claim from Hobbyking. I dare not even try to fly it as it is. Edited By Cliff Bastow on 06/11/2015 13:14:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 There is another on youtube here with what looks like the same bend. It is such a shame the quality and flying issues with these as it is a great looker. Good luck, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Pretty good Pylon Racer, poor warbird...................pointless......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 here's a nice video of one C/W spin....very scale like ...not. ken anderson...ne...1 ...lanc dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Fascinating stuff. Even without wash-out you wouldn't expect a wing of this shape, properly designed, to tip-stall violently. At worst it should be a recoverable wing drop, not a hair-raising spiral. It must be something to do with inaccuracies in profile and section, perhaps connected with moulding methods and even the cooling characteristics of the type of foam used here after forming. It is a really attractive model and amazing value, but if you are likely to write it off on the first flight because of this, the word "value" has a different meaning. When you look at the HK web-site you get the impression that the guys on the various videos are genuinely keen and flight test their new planes pretty well, so you don't expect this, particularly when they clearly persevered to get it right after the abortive results with their original Lancaster attempt. It will be interesting to find out what response Cliff gets from HK on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 well I have to say that so far Hobbyking have been great. they have accepted my claim and agreed to a credit for the stickers and prop adaptor and have agreed to send a replacement wing! So now I wait to see what happens next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Mine flies ok, just keep the speed up. If any one of you is at least a fairly confident pilot, then there is no problem. Mine spun in from about 20 feet off the ground, but expected it and recovered straightaway, and recovered from about 10 feet and kept flying. It does fly fast, but will slow down ok in a head wind and mine has a bow, but when under flight loads sorts itself out and mine goes with no trim deviations at all. Probably had 50 flights with it, and apart from the retract block on one side ripping out, no damage, or problems... Edited By Paul Marsh on 08/11/2015 09:08:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I was thinking about adding an outer wing spar and trying to straighten out the wing, but I think reading all the posts and videos I think I am just going to go for it. That is when the weather allows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Keep it fast or high & you'll be OK. TBH the tip stall is quite impressive and worth experiencing just to see how savage it is! Great fun if you can get another in the air at the same time too and fly in formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hmmmm after reading this thread and the one at the other place, mine is still in it's delivery box. Do I open it ? LOL May just sit there awhile. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Posted by Tony F on 08/11/2015 12:09:45: Hmmmm after reading this thread and the one at the other place, mine is still in it's delivery box. Do I open it ? LOL Mine too! I'm hoping that a few buyers might come on here and say theirs is fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Oops lol I see Paul is one of the few who says it's ok Phil. I will open mine later or maybe tomorrow and give it the once over and if any faults with the wing or ANY faults found I may push for a refund. Made me wary of flying it.Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 This looks like a classic case of "designers" thinking that anything is possible! It isn't! In the first video he gets away with it simply by flying it like a Stryker! A brick will fly in a straight line - as long as you have enough power to fly it fast enough! The second video was a more scale-like attempt - at least as far as speed is concerned. But look at the pitch in some of the earlier turns - its very nose-up, at a high AoA, even in a fairly gentle turn when going slower. So when he came to attempting those Chantelle style turns he really was pushing his luck - and it bit him! You could see that coming. What's the wing loading like - it looks high. All in all - I think my money will be staying in my wallet on this one! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Would there be a mod to make the nose stay low in turns or is it just flying style ? If I can make it fly steady and slower then I'd be more comfortable in flying it ?Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 No, go get one. Sometimes it's good to get a model where it bites, who wants to fly a boring model, that is predictable, won't stall and you know that your piloting skills won't be needed, apart to steer a model around - that would be boring...! Nah!, just get one and learn to fly a model that bites a bit, not stick your head in the sand and say "it's too hard, +++whinge/gripe+++". It's not about the destination - it's the journey that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 bad design i would say-looks the part alright.....1320mm w/span and weigh's 1160g flying weight.....who wants to fly around with their heart in their mouth ..not me-been there not nice.. ken anderson...ne...1 save your money dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Posted by Tony F on 08/11/2015 14:01:54: Would there be a mod to make the nose stay low in turns or is it just flying style ? If I can make it fly steady and slower then I'd be more comfortable in flying it ? Tony If its what I think - no not really. The wing seems to be "overworked". For a given wing (profile, size etc) lift depends basically on speed and angle of attack. If you fly this quickly then you generate enough lift. But the speed has to be well above anything remotely scale-like. As Dave B says above - its a four-engined pylon racer! If you drop the speed then you have to increase the angle of attack - to restore the lost lift. When the guy in the second video turns at a slower speed, a lot is being asked of that wing. It needs to produce enough lift to generate the turning force whilst simultaneously still giving enough lift to support the model. The only way it can do that is with lots of elevator in to increase the angle of attack. But that's when the problems start. At higher angles of attack the wing is moving into stall territory. Eventually it let's go. The stall itself is not good - but its not main problem. The main problem is the very sudden, one-sided and viscous nature of the stall. This leads to a spin with the inner wing stalled -the outer wing may not be stalled. This asymmetry is very bad news. You can recover - but you need cool presence of mind and height. The things that the OP is trying might help - things like setting a little reflex into the ailerons etc. But they probably won't make much difference to be honest - this just looks like a bad aeroplane! Regarding PM's ' be a man and fly it anyway'. Well if you already have it OK - keep the speed up so you don't have the increase the angle of attack too far and fly it like the guy in the first video. Accept the fact that its a bit of pig and that one day - probably not very far into the future - you will be half a second behind it and that will be it! But if you don't already own one why would you want to? Model flying is not a machismo exercise. Well not in my world anyway! Life's too short and there are too many good aeroplanes out there to want to spend time flying a dog like this seems to be. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Bernard Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I'm another supporter of the HK Lanc, OK so I crashed it on its maiden as I described earlier - but I crashed it, it did not crash itself. I had read the warnings about it tip stalling if flown too slow, and that is precisely what I did. There are lots of models that need flying onto the strip with throttle being reduced only at touchdown, and this is one of them. Prior to the landing approach I had 5 minutes of superb flying, and I did not have to fly it at full throttle all the time - the circuits were at 2/3rd throttle at the most and at that the flying speed looked a lot more realistic. Yes there are bends in the moulding - but you don't notice them in the air, you just have a model that is a bit different from the run of the mill ARTFs and looks good! If I was not a supporter of this model I would not waste time repairing it! Persist and enjoy !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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