john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yep that's correct BEB and I expected to get pulled for confusing others I've always done it this way so stuck with what I'm used to, same difference really, we all have our own ways...get it straight is what matters. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Oh agreed - and in the end I may well stick to what I know! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 1/4 strips added for the aileron hinge points, I can build the ailerons when dry. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 07/01/2016 20:40:59: Interestingly you are building the wing the way I would. With it "packed up" in key places, then add the le sheeting after removing from the board. I notice that Peter suggests a slightly different approach - he puts the le sheeting down first, then adds the spars etc and finally the ribs. If I understand correctly he then glues the sheeting up onto the ribs while the assembly is still on the board. (Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood that Peter!). So the sheeting is effectively his packing during assembly. Pondering now, whether to stick with what I know - ie the way you have done it - or branch out and try something new! BEB I never lift the wing until all the sheet is on and the webs. No warps are possible with this system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I have built wings as Peter suggests, adding rib capping in some cases under the ribs as well. It works very well. If you can close the leading edge D box before lifting from the board you really shouldn't be able to warp the wing. Give it a go BEB, despite not being your normal way, it does work really well Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 07/01/2016 22:18:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 As it's been shown lately forums can be funny places So just in case it reads as I'm being critical of Peters method of building the wing, let me assure you I'm not, I find it easier for me, the way I've done it. Johhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 There is always more than one way to skin a cat - never more so than in aeromodelling! One thing the MB always shows is this multiple approach - and each one works for the person concerned. New builders really have to "pay their money and take their choice" - and old builders like me have to sometimes consider trying something new! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 I've always butted the l/e sheeting up to the spar, however the way we're doing it by overlapping onto it, makes a much neater job, so I'm a convert. Wing's still pinned down, webs are in, and top sheeting's done, when it's dry i will have a warp free wing. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 On the wing building topic, I always make mines on John and BEB's way. For the Ballerina though, I'll give a try to PM's method, I think it's easy and it works better than mine. Another thing that I've noticed in PM's designs is that the spar webs are added in front of the spar, whereas I always placed them behind. I though that this was just a matter of preference, but I was reading yesterday the building article of the Jezebel, and he explained there that doing it this way, you then have space for placing the pegs to hold the upper sheeting, which makes also a lot of sense, so I will try this as well for the Ballerina. Definitely the MB is a good way of learning from everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I just like my way but if other people prefer their way, that is fine too. Yes, I like to clamp the sheet down to the spar, much easier than dozens of pins being pushed into a rock hard spar. I use map pins at the leading edge because that wood is much softer and the pins a re short so go right home and the heads hold the sheet down Only snag is that sometimes the heads come off and youhave to get the pin out of the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Paul, I normally use the pins method, but as you say, it means you have a lot of pins trough the sheet and down to the hard spar, and also that you end with lots of holes in the sheet. So I'll try the peg method this time. I use normal sewing pins, but they are a pain to place or remove them with the fingers, so in most cases I use a hammer to place them (which is a different type of pain because you have to be very careful to not bend the pins...) and pliers to remove On a different, more general, topic, I'd like to mention that for me it's a new experience to have the possibility to ask the designer about the model I'm building. I find the experience very interesting, and definitely will help me to improve. So thanks Peter, and thanks modelflying.co.uk !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Posted by Peter Miller on 08/01/2016 08:10:43: I use map pins at the leading edge because that wood is much softer and the pins a re short so go right home and the heads hold the sheet down Only snag is that sometimes the heads come off and youhave to get the pin out of the wood. I use map pins, the ones with the plastic round heads, a lot. But I did have one bad experience with them. I was sheeting a warbird fuselage - so lots of pins and it was a new pack. When it came to getting them out, no matter what way or how carefully I tried, the head came off every single one! It took me ages to get the pins out. Obviously it was just a bad batch of pins - but under the circumstances I could hardly take them back - I don't think WHS would have has much truck with my view that "of course I should be able to stick them through two layers of wood right through a glue joint upto the head and pull them out again"! But I still use that type of pin and most of the time you only get the odd one that "looses its head"! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I bought some cheaper ones and they were terrible I have bought some much larger ones with a sort of capstan shaped head and they never come off but the actual pin is much thicker. If you buy the clear ones you can see that it is a complete tack with head inside the head. I buy them onEBay. I also buy T headed pins there including larger than average ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I have to say Peter's wing building sequence worked really well on the Swamp Rat. I will use it again. It may be worth saving all the offcuts of rib balsa to use as wedges when gluing the underside LE. I always screw the spar down using little wooden clips with woodscrews into the board. (plasterboard) Works a treat as long as you remember to locate the screws where they can be unscrewed later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I have a bad habit of holding the lower sheet down with a couple of map pins at first. Then I forget and leave them in there and wonder what is rattling!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 My balsa spars are like Granite if I'd had suitable clamps I would have used them, got a load of bent pins now John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Lifted my wing for a look and to tidy the ends up before I catch them and damage something. Nice straight wing, and feels light/strong. For other panel, I pin this wing to plan upside down and draw the rib positions in with a different colour pen. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Build the right hand wing panel then use it to mark left one out, place on plan l/e at bottom, pin in place draw in rib positions and aileron, job's a good un, no cost and on same paper. don't forget wing tip go's tother end this time John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 You could spend five minutes and make some of these clips and forget about bent pins just glue a strip of ply of spar thickness plus sheeting thickness to a slightly wider strip of 3mm ply, when the glue is dry drill holes and cut off into individual clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 They look easy to make and use K.C John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I have a box of clothes pegs which work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My wife has a box of clothes pegs - and they work well too! BEB PS - But shhh,....don't tell her! Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 08/01/2016 18:41:19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Perhaps I didn't explain properly that those clips are to hold the lower spar down to the board. They hold it down firmly. Pins tend to lift out when you press down somewhere else! They are not a substitute for other clips or pegs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyD Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 when building my second wing panel i built over the same plan just turning the ribs round and putting the LE where the TE is and the TE where the LE is,if that makes sense,i know what i mean anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C. Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Does that infer are you coming or going or been or went . Sorry but I could not resit hang my head in shame lol . Hope to start my build soon, keep posting it's all great info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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