Kit builders, what would you like???

[IanN]

Posted by RICHARD WILLS on 03/12/2016 18:44:58:

Anyone that would genuinely buy one in the next two months please put their hand up .

I would ask you to be really honest because I dont want to waste my time on it if people are just "maybies."

Richard

Richard, totally understood - pm sent

[IanN]

Posted by MattyB on 04/12/2016 11:28:06:

Posted by RICHARD WILLS on 03/12/2016 18:44:58:

Yep, I completely agree. I am a member of 3 clubs, but the number of new plan, scratch or kit built models I see in a season completed by members is in the low single figures.

This is mostly about time - I like to build, but the world of work is more demanding than ever and with young children I have neither the time nor space to do so. Even those who have the skills and time are tending not to build as they get older, partly because two of the three clubs are slope members who no longer want to carry big unwieldy scale models up the hill, but also because balsa planes on the slope are simply not as good as an ARTF foamie or moulded model.

Edited By MattyB on 04/12/2016 11:30:14

Building still occurs in our club, but the scope has expanded. The guys who have done the career/children thing and retired now seem to have the disposable income to spread their wings (I doubt that I will be that lucky though!), and their interests seem to have moved into larger models. The .60 sized warbird is not the draw, and does not have the wow factor at the patch, that it once did.

The twins had great promise and potential imo, but without enough take up to give them an airing to a wider audience this hugely laudable initiative seems to be close to the buffers unless enough pile in now

Huge credit to Richard for trying

[Model Monster]

Both Bucksboy and I would like a Bf110 kit. I pm'd a while back.

Edited By Model Monster on 05/12/2016 00:50:18

[lightning 759]

such a shame there's not much uptake on your kits guess its the world we live in now ,still a couple on your website that are on my bucket list , must say though the quality of the ju88 is superb specially the foam core parts their Rolls Royce quality

Andy

[Andy Spencer 1]

Hello, my name is Andy and I am a raw recruit. I've built a couple of helicopters which were very much mechanical builds/assembly but never attempted a fixed wing aircraft. I'm getting close to completing a Spitfire courtesy of Warbirds. All I can say is the it's been the most enjoyable modelling experience so far, the kit has gone together just fine and Richard Wills of Warbirds has been great support. Id encourage any relative novice like me to have a go at a kit like this. I've enjoyed the build tremendously but I've also enjoyed learning about this iconic aircraft.

[Ace]

Richard,

Did enough people put their hand up to purchase a Bf110 kit for it to be worthwhile producing?

Hopefully a few more PM'd you directly joining those above.

Ace

PM sent

[RICHARD WILLS]

Hi Chaps , thanks for all of your pm's and emails . We have a total of five people who have confirmed a concrete interest . I am going to be honest and say that is not really enough to initiate a new kit .

Spitfire sales are also very slow compared to this time last year and so I would pretty much guarantee that after the initial "rush " of five 110 's I'd be lucky to sell the same again in a whole year ,

By the time you feature in the drawing , manual , and tidying up the original design and moulds it doesnt stack up .

It does show the state of the market . Back in 2003 when I released the La7 (expecting it to flop as an obscurity ) we sold around 50 on release and another 50 in the following year . This on top of Spits and Hurricanes.

Boy, have things changed !

The Chinese ARTFs combined with the non building brigade have left us all in tatters . Not sure how its going to end up . Possibly in me admitting there are insufficient builders and me catering to high end ARTFs in very limited numbers. Perhaps that is where my 100" B17 comes in ? Where ASM left off ?

Richard

[Cuban8]

IMHO, based on what's been appearing at the fields that I use, the ARTF bubble has become seriously deflated of late. Cost and availability of suitable models for the average club flier are not so easy to find now and I'd suggest that building is undergoing a resurgence, given the number of Tony Nijhuis and other plan builds that are underway now.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jon H]

I agree completely. Building at my club is quite popular and our winter build using Richards kits was a great success.

ARTF kits are getting more expensive and most people are getting tired of the fragility of some ARTF models with the laser cut spider web construction.

I know not everyone has unlimited time, and thats why i focus my building time on scale models and fly ARTF sport models.

I might have shown this before, but just as an example of cost the black horse Hurricane 46 is 300 quid (available for about 250 at some shops) where as Richards kit is £140. If you ignore things you need for both like glue, engine, servos etc, you have over 100 quid to build and finish the model which i think is not impossible. Even if you go over by a few quid, the difference in looks is well worth it.

[kc]

Everyone loves scale models but few people want to spend many months building a scale model only to find that nobody notices their efforts when they arrive at the field because it goes unnoticed amongst the ARTF stuff that cost no time or effort.

However there is a desire to build things amongst most people and building a sports model seems to fulfill this and gives a flyable plane in not too much time. Moderate size electric models seem to be the popular sports models now. But where are the kits for sports models now? I suspect there would be a market for a kit for something equivalent to a Gangster 52 designed for electric with built up wings.

[Nigel Dell]

Have to agree Jon, use it or lose it comes to mind now.

The La 7 is a cracking build looking forward to making a bit more progress over Christmas as I have been time poor the last 3 months for anything it seems, I was looking forward to the 110 but to put all the effort into getting the kits ready for that kind of return I don't blame Richard at all not many of us would do it.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[RICHARD WILLS]

Everyones comments are valid . I agree with all that has been said apart from the resurgence in kit building that is mentioned of late . The demise of most of my old competitors is surely testiment to the fact , but I may be wrong .

It is though a fascinating subject and a fundamental shift in the modelling universe. The RC groups thread on our Spitfire ,which is pretty active, has a number of chaps who are new to the business of balsa bashing and they are absolutely loving it . The kit was designed to be slot together and it really has surprised me how well they have taken to it . So much so that they often bey for another kit before they have finished the Spitfire .

Therein lies the problem . There is no single type that appeals in sufficient number (as we found out here) that could follow the spitfire and as a consequence the development time is not justified.

As KC suggested , I had considered a nice laser build sport model as a simple step into building but It is very difficult to appeal to people over and above the Ripmax bullet/ acrowot etc ,given their low price as ready mades.

We sell quite a few spinners and other accessories to people who are building all sorts of things . My impression is that there are people building but there is no pattern . They are singularly building their own dream model because that is the only way to get it . That is great but it is a hell of a long build compared to a well sorted kit .

We started out this thread looking to provide a kit to the builder in general . The simple criteria was that we should have around thirty people agreeing on the same design to make the development justifiable .

We didnt get near that despite over 17000 views . What does it all mean ? Did the Amercans really land on the moon and why is Sooty immortalised in plastic on every corner shop counter whilst Sweep is banished to obscurity ? All good questions.

[Phil 9]

[RICHARD WILLS]

Good looking lad isn't he?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[kevin b]

Interesting thread Richard.

The problems are many and the answers are few.

There is so much choice these days that customers end up just not bothering sometimes.

What I do find interesting is that people will pay rather large amounts for somebody to cut a "bespoke" kit of parts to a plan downloaded for free, but turn their noses up at value for money, fully tried and tested kits. The best example that springs to mind is Flair. It was a well known fact that you couldn't buy all the bits in the box at the price Flair were selling the kits for, but they still couldn't produce viable turnover, Marutaka were another one years ago.

I'm afraid solely producing model aeroplane kits will no longer be a profitable business and you are best advised to diversify. Again I will site an example. Laser engines are excellent pieces of kit. However they are produced by an engineering company as a side line. If they'd had to rely totally on model engine sales, they would probably have shut the doors years ago. Yes they may be profitable, but this is still a very fickle cottage industry.

[kc]

It seems that to get lots of people building the same model you need to hype the thing up until lots of people want a kit. For example the Mass Build here on the forum or the 'free' magazine plans that need an expensive set of laser cut parts to build easily.

It is the same with everything nowadays - you don't get rich by working hard. you get rich by hyping things up so that you get paid many, many times over for doing the same bit of work. Only a few years ago baking cakes was a thing only a few ladies did now they have hyped it up on TV until the people involved have become very rich. If we only knew the right people we might get model building as the latest cult programme on TV and model designers would get the free publicity and become rich and famous. But we don't know the right people.........

[RICHARD WILLS]

What a lovely idea . Sadly our hobby is still given the bad rap we inherited from "The Flight of the Phoenix".

The model aircraft designer should have come out as the hero but instead he just looked like a colossal nerd.

That is why , when people ask me what do I do , I tell them I'm a lavatory cleaner .(Far less controversial ).

Regarding the excellent concept of a TV series ,it has been done before with moderate success . However I do think the problem was the presenters . British Gas nailed the boring subject of selling gas by using talking animals made from clay to convey the message.

On that basis I suggest we coax Sweep out of exile for our presenter . The only possible fly in the ointment was his legendary Clarkson esc temper tantrums and the language barrier imposed by his limited repertoire of squeeks.

Other wise try Pip Schoffield or better still Holly.

[David Mackay 1]

I suppose the first introduction to aero modelling is going to the local model shop, and buying your first model. Temptation is there to purchase the Spitfire or other known model, and the model shop is there to give advice. I have seen people go to the shop, and addement they want that Spitfire. Not only could it be advanced on your first model you build you are curtainly not going to be able to fly it. The next thing is to be a member of the BMFA where you get a monthly magazine you come to see flying events you can go to, and mingle with people with a similar interest. I have built the starter kits, and have the Tiger Moth, Mustang, Harker hunter jet, Slingby glider to name but a few. My loft is full of them, and I even have my first trainer(Mk I,II,III and so on). Of course another essential is to join the local flying club, and you then start to learn to fly. I used to spend the morning flying, and on the way home go for a pint to celibrate my success. Of coarse there is failure, and you have to ride the storm to get up and try again. I looked to have a throw out of magazines, and BMFA periodicals,and found I had such an involvement that nothing was thrown away. I prefer the build, and It pays to change to different makers such as DB models, Flair, Presedent to name but a few to expand your building experience. Once you feel you have mastered to this stage you can then purchase plans, and purchase the balsa seperately. In the magazines you find plans can come with supportive parts such as cowls, cnc cut parts. In all it is an excellent hobby, and one that gives you plenty fresh air. I did not realise how cold you can become, and how dependent you are on weather conditions. There is also ex RAF pilots you come across who have an involvement, and such as David Boddington and Chris Gold to name but a few as there is lots more. There is also national champions such as Mark Leavesely who was the Son of my local model shop (changed hands now). I don't know about this ARTF not my scene. I suppose the youth needs to be encouraged into the hobby, and ensure they are successful to continue. I aways remember at my local flying field where the Mother used to bring her two boys to fly. They had folding seats to sit on, and each week they would take their models home in bits. Enough for anyone to pack in yet they were there the next week. A lot of failure although a hobby I am proud to be part of. I don't know if I have lost track of what I was righting about as it was the sale of products, and there demand. If you don't have the above then you will not have the interest and it falls away.

[Don Fry]

Dark thoughts cross my mind. The thought of those stars of the silver screen, Cymas, and Dave Hopkin, discussing their oncoming launch of aphrodisiac after shave lotions, ether based and ozone respectively, is now a worm going round in my head.

[Colin Leighfield]

Richard, as I remember "Flight of the Phoenix", the model aircraft designer did finish up as a hero because his idea worked and in the end, they all flew away. The fact that in real life the flying creation built for the final scene in the film crashed on the other side of the sand dunes and killed Paul Mantz was swept under the carpet!

My problem is that I love building (and designing when I can) and I just can't do them all. I'd love any of your model projects but it's just getting around to them after the clutter of those already on the way.

I think the magazines RCME and RCMW should give more coverage to self-build opportunities like these. If you make lots of people aware of them even a small percentage can be quite a few. I think most modellers don't even know what you are doing in the first place. If you can't get things into people's faces they won't ever buy them. Obviously the advertising revenue is with the mass producers and importers, but even so for the good of us all it would be great to see more reporting of products like yours.

[Tim Flyer]

One important factor for kit demand I would imagine is producing them for popular engine sizes. The10cc 2stroke /70-90 four stroke is a popular size. I have a few engines in that range as do a number of other club members. This has always been a nice size to build as it isn't to small and fiddly ,plus weight is not too critical, and flying ease , plus transport convenience . When looking for kits I would normally think of an engine first . .im not sure all think that way though ! A lot of people seem to have moved to large models and petrol in recent years although some seem now to be returning to glow realising that the mid size model still has a lot of advantages.

[Model Monster]

Does this mean Bucksboy and I aren't getting our bf110s?