Nigel Dell Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Posted by Percy Verance on 24/04/2016 07:56:24: I just looked at Phil Ramsey's site. The Gladiator he now does is a mini version at 40 odd inch span. Not sure if he is still producing Percy, I still have my original Mini Pitts and tried to contact him for a few parts for the refurb and he was not producing then, could have changed of course, they all flew well and went together very quickly. Edited By Nigel Dell on 24/04/2016 09:11:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 Everyone I have ever spoken to about the Ramsey gladiator has commented on the fact that it would be lighter if it was made from cast iron. For some reason they end up really heavy! I also think that cap have stopped producing and again they tended to end up a touch porky David has hit on an interesting concept. A batch of kits could be produced if there was a demand large enough to satisfy the economy of making them. But, they would most likely lack fully detailed instruction sheets and would not be as polished as a full production kit with a glossy booklet and all the rest. The Yaks being built by my club are just that with only a basic plan and no instructions. Just a pile of parts and off you go all for £120 which is a pretty good deal. If kit builders don't mind not having full instructions this will work, but for newcomers to kit building it would be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Poke Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Supermarine Spiteful/Seafang, Dh Hornet, ME262, Hughes H1 racer, Zlin526, 1600 - 1800mm. Thanks Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Dell Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Posted by Percy Verance on 24/04/2016 09:20:37: Granted Nigel, the pics on the site do look a bit dated......... I simply assumed (perhaps wrongly) that as his site was still live, so was production! Me too! 😳👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Dell Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 24/04/2016 09:30:14: Everyone I have ever spoken to about the Ramsey gladiator has commented on the fact that it would be lighter if it was made from cast iron. For some reason they end up really heavy! I also think that cap have stopped producing and again they tended to end up a touch porky. The Ramsey kits were very much of their time when it came to weight the Mini Pitts was not bad to be honest certainly flew well, the larger ones I can not recall weights but IIRC they were designed around the Super Tigre S2000 engines as I assume the Gladiator was, I never did see the Glady but had the 1/4 scale Pitts and that also flew well, the last surviving brain cell does not remember the weight of the thing and in a moment of madness I sold it long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangar 9 nut Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I had a Phil Ramsey Pitts it had a fibreglass fus and was quite heavy but flew great with a Super Tigre 25cc in all weathers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 a 65 inch biplane should not need a 20cc 2 stroke to fly, but I agree that times and constructions methods have changed so a 65 inch gladiator now should be much lighter. I would not like to see it more than 9lbs and for 80-100 4 strokes. Just as a bit of a running total, so far the aircraft that seem the most mentioned are (in no order) Gladiator Whirlwind Hornet il2 fw190 Tempest p38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 24/04/2016 14:48:50: Just as a bit of a running total, so far the aircraft that seem the most mentioned are (in no order) Gladiator Whirlwind Hornet il2 fw190 Tempest p38 In that case IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 IAR80 is that enough to get on the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 ... or possibly > IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80 & IAR80. ... OK right, leaving the classroom again... Hakuna matata Chris BRU - BE / CTR IAR80 Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 ... or possibly > IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80, IAR80 & IAR80. ... OK right, leaving the classroom again... Hakuna matata Chris BRU - BE / CTR IAR80 Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 ... oops / double post... Sorry Chris BRU - BE / CTR ABSENCE of Control Edited By McG 6969 on 25/04/2016 12:52:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 My totals were more related to number of people supporting it vs number of mentions While the IAR is a very interesting machine and great looking, i cant really see it being popular in a wider market. Its like Hurricane's vs Spitfires. How many Hurricane Kits are out there vs Spitfire? and when you consider how popular the Hurricane is vs the IAR you start to see the problem. Niche market is one thing, but sadly that might be taking it too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Aw, sadly I fear you're right, though that didn't stop the LA7 kit getting produced. The end result is yet another p47/spit/p51 etc etc because they're commercially viable and the right shape for a model. Maybe if you you couldd solve the slightly tricky Undercart, a Wildcat/Martlet might be a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Will im right there with you. I have a P39 in my fleet for crying out loud! But, the economies of producing it just arent there. It would be like laser trying to produce a 9 cylinder radial of 30 or so cc. it just would not be cost effective to make and its market would be too small. But, it would be awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Ramsay-Fraser Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Lets just forget the Gladiator and stick with the Whirlwind. That would get my vote and a commitment to purchase provided the cost was reasonable. On the idea of getting a certain number of people to commit to a purchase and providing enough agree to make the project viable, why not ask for a small deposit? Say £20-£30.00? This would have the benefit of tying people into their committment and eventual purchase as well as helping offset any development and tooling costs. I only suggest this because, as a member of the classic car fraternity, I've seen any number of well-intentioned individuals being hung out to dry because they've undertaken to finance the production of no longer available parts or manufacture them themselves on the strength of club members saying 'yes, I'll have one of those please' only to find interest waning when payment was required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Not a bad idea Michael. I was chatting with Richard last night about a similar idea. He can explain better than i the pro's and con's so i will leave him to it. As for abandoning the gladiator i am on the fence about it myself. I really want one and would buy it, but a 65 inch biplane is quite alot of work no matter what you do with it and the warbirds range of kits have always been a minimum of work to get the model flying so it might be better to put it on the back burner. The whirlwind on the other hand would be very much in line with the other kits on offer and could be made quite quick to build i would have thought. Personally i wouldnt mind a foam wing and fuselage decks but if a full build up structure gets people votes im not fussed by it. I will take one either way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 25/04/2016 16:14:15: Not a bad idea Michael. I was chatting with Richard last night about a similar idea. He can explain better than i the pro's and con's so i will leave him to it. As for abandoning the gladiator i am on the fence about it myself. I really want one and would buy it, but a 65 inch biplane is quite alot of work no matter what you do with it and the warbirds range of kits have always been a minimum of work to get the model flying so it might be better to put it on the back burner. The whirlwind on the other hand would be very much in line with the other kits on offer and could be made quite quick to build i would have thought. Personally i wouldnt mind a foam wing and fuselage decks but if a full build up structure gets people votes im not fussed by it. I will take one either way! I think a short kit style would be the way to go, veneered foam wings and desks, pre-bent wire and moulded cowl and canopy, with a cutting template and wood list, the wood we can source for ourselves - unless that is you can buy it at discount and add extra value that way so you make a bit more profit and we get it a bit cheaper You could ask people to contribute a small amount for development work and issue a credit note in return redeemable on the kit itself later on, so even if no-one buys it you are at least partly covered - I am sure those that want the kit would be happy to pay a small percentage up front.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Butler Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Well for my suggestions, I would like to see a version of a Heinkel 111, that would make a very nice twin. The others I would like to see would be the Avro Anson and a Beaufighter. I was going to suggest the Henschel 129 but probably not well known enough to be popular. The only single I can think of that hasn't been done to death is the Firefly or the Ilyushin 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 In terms of 'what is missing from the current range that would sell in any numbers' I think that the F4U, P40, P47, Zero and FW190 are the missing icons. Next would come the likes of the Tempest/Typhoon/P36/Stormovik and other less well known WW2 single engine types, then between wars items like the P26 and the Hawker, Fiat and Curtis bipes. A few decades ago I had a 40 sized 54" Typhoon, character scale, all veneered foam and it was an absolute peach to fly. That was fixed undercart which was the norm for the period, these days I'd rather go up a size to where retracts are less of a penalty. Dave's short kit sounds a good way to go, the Skyways models worked well as such but maybe the finished items were a bit too stand-off. They were a good compromise though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenz Mueller Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Henschel HS-129 and Firefly are great ideas. If it has to be a Grumman Cat, let it be the Bearcat or the Tigercat. Lorenz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Personally i am not a fan of the planpack/short kit idea. I think the whole point of getting a kit is to have most of what you need in the box ready to go. For me having to cut out a bunch of parts would be a real turn off for any kit. I understand why you guys are suggesting it, but i just think that with laser cutting the way it is why would you want o mess about with paper templates and a knife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetenor Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Just for laughs what a bout a plane that looks like model. Supermarine Dumbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Short kit sounds good to me frankly, and by that I mean no sheeting/ spars, all the cut parts yes but I have all the sheeting in stock, when you start looking at selling kits there's plenty about who need to spread the cost a little, getting the cost down increases the opportunity for me buying and the seller making a sale. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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