LMA v BMFA insurance

[Rich too]

So why don't we get a vote? And the accounts are to be audited according to the mem & arts. It is nothing to do with HMRC.

Edited By Rich2 on 08/01/2017 21:14:16

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

For exec officers and tech committees you do.
When I say as required by HMRC i meant they are submitted with whatever auditkng is required for a company the size of the BMFA. The accounts are audited, an item at the agm is to appoint the auditor. Accounts side of things is really not my thing though. I do know that the accounts manager is a real stickler and makes sure we account for every penny and as efficiently as possible.

[Rich too]

I dnt want to get into this but the accounts refer to the appointment of auditors but the accounts are NOT audited. I suggest that you bring it up and the board asks the accountants /auditors to explain.

[Rich too]

The accounts manager does not provide assurance, it is the audit that provides assurance for the accounts managers ( and others ) work.

[Graham Chadwick]

I am totally shocked. If it is true that our BMFA insurance only costs £11 and we pay £33 this is scandalous. I naively thought the BMFA was working for me' on my behalf, to support me in my chosen pass time. But if this is correct then the BMFA is taxing me 200% on a closed shop insurance. Closed shop by not recognizing other identical insurance. This is like driving to your country boundary and being told they don't recognized your insurance and you have to re buy the identical policy to drive there.

I pay a membership fee to the BMFA and am incensed at being taxed by their 200% insurance tax.

Please tell me I have have been missinformed or misunderstood this situation. Or SHAME ON YOU BMFA.

Edited By Graham Chadwick on 09/01/2017 11:54:34

[PatMc]

Graham, what on earth are you on about

[LUKE GRICE]

It sounds like Graham is asking, What is happening to all the rest of his money ? Ever since this NFC came on the agenda there has been a lot of hostility towards the BMFA. The BMFA say there would be no increase in membership fees. Well lets see ? Time to stop fighting. Go flying, build a plane or even buy a drone.

Same with all this bad press about drones. The drone flyers will say its only a few people. Few or not. We as a hobby have never had so much bad publicity . Councils, Governments ESRA. CAA and the rest . If the BMFA do not get it sorted for us. Then there will be no need to wary about Country members. LMA insurance of the NFC. We will not have a hobby.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

We have no bad relations with our Council we work with them to our mutual benefit, and the coming changes are another reason to question country members current rights.

[LUKE GRICE]

I believe all BMFA members should have a vote. Did the Country members have a vote. Or was the voting changed some years ago .

[MattyB]

Posted by LUKE GRICE on 09/01/2017 17:27:55:

I believe all BMFA members should have a vote. Did the Country members have a vote. Or was the voting changed some years ago .

Rather than traipse through it all again here probably best that you read this thread Luke.

[Keith Lomax]

Posted by Graham Chadwick on 09/01/2017 11:17:34:

I am totally shocked. If it is true that our BMFA insurance only costs £11 and we pay £33 this is scandalous. I naively thought the BMFA was working for me' on my behalf, to support me in my chosen pass time. But if this is correct then the BMFA is taxing me 200% on a closed shop insurance. Closed shop by not recognizing other identical insurance. This is like driving to your country boundary and being told they don't recognized your insurance and you have to re buy the identical policy to drive there.

I pay a membership fee to the BMFA and am incensed at being taxed by their 200% insurance tax.

Please tell me I have have been missinformed or misunderstood this situation. Or SHAME ON YOU BMFA.

Edited By Graham Chadwick on 09/01/2017 11:54:34

This is wrong on so many levels.

The accounts (which ARE AUDITED), show the different things on which BMFA spends the money received from membership subscriptions. In various ways these activities support either all or different disciplines of model flying. It is not a tax on insurance. As Andy mentioned above, a lot of it is spent supporting clubs and fliers in relation to flying field issues. What about the staff required to administer the membership of 35,000? A lot of it is spent liaising with authorities (CAA, National Trust, MoD, EASA) to ensure the continued freedom to fly.

There are no "identical" policies available from elsewhere. Both the LMA and The SAA have similar insurance, but neither include the club committee and landlord cover that is inherent in the BMFA insurance. They also have different personal accident policies.

I can't speak for other aspects of the LMA and SAA policies as I don't have sight of them, but do they include worldwide geographical coverage? Do they include Crown Indemnity (required if you fly on a MoD site)? Do they have an excess payment on liability claims, and if so how much? Do they include member-to-member cover (if you damage another member's car with your aircraft)?

--

On another point posted above, Country members have never had a vote at the AGM (or EGMs if called). It is only in the last 15 years or so that CM's have even had the opportunity to vote in BMFA elections (but that depends on having enough volunteers required to contest the posts, all of which are re-elected every two years).

[Geoff S]

I really don't know why people get so worked up about the BMFA. The annual cost is trivial compared to the total many (the vast majority?) spend on other aspects of the sport cum hobby. I pay £80/year to be a member of both the BMFA and my club. That's less than half what I paid to be a member of my inland dinghy sailing/racing club when I had to give up sailing back in 1990 - and I had to pay extra for insurance (compulsory to be a club member) on our boat to cover for accidents.

Without a national organisation to protect our interests and lobby government and extra-government organisations, and protect sites etc we wouldn't have a hobby at all. That particularly applies now more than at any time in the recent past because of the increased adverse publicity caused mostly by so-called drones but also to a lesser extent by other small electric park fliers flown by inexperienced people. Minority pastimes like ours need a single voice or our needs/concerns will be swamped by the noise. For the same reason I'm a member of Cycling UK (formerly the Cyclists Touring Club), which is the oldest touring organisation in the world, to support cycling in general.

Whilst it is good to oversee how our money is spent (that applies to all organisations) it's essential that petty concerns don't obstruct the work of the many dedicated individuals who work on our behalf. I don't have any official capacity in aeromodelling but I've served on committees in motor cycling, sailing and cycling in the past and been tearing my hair out on occasions from frustration and worry that I wasn't doing a good job. I like to think that applies to the BMFA. Those organising and working for the hobby deserve more than heavy adverse criticism for their often unseen efforts.

If the BMFA disappeared because unpaid officials and employees decided it wasn't worth their time and effort then we would all, members and hangers on alike, be far, far worse off.

Geoff

[Peter Christy]

Well said, Geoff!

--

Pete

[Tim Flyer]

I second that . I am also a member of Cycling U.K. for exactly the same reason. We need one major representative of our hobby to liaise with those in authority. They will not be interested in talking to a number of smaller groups.

[Kevin 216]

Well said Geoff full agree with your post - costs me £9 month for club and BMFA - money well spent in my opinion.

[ChrisB]

Completely agree Geoff!

Being an LMA, BMFA and local club member costs me £9.83 per month. Whereas a chap at work is a member of a local golf club and he pays £83 a month (£1000 a year) plus he had to pay an £800 joining fee.

All about priorities or perception!

Edited By ChrisB on 10/01/2017 18:51:13

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Fella next door keep Budgies, bought em on higher perch's

Happy enough with BMFA at £33 though.

John

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by john stones 1 on 10/01/2017 18:56:15:

Fella next door keep Budgies, bought em on higher perch's

Happy enough with BMFA at £33 though.

John

I bet he only got them because they were going cheap.

[Rob Buckley]

I was trying very hard not to get dragged into this, but seeing as an elected official of the BMFA is making inaccurate statements about LMA insurance I need to make a public correction.

LMA insurance includes club committee cover. As we only have 2 clubs (and aren’t in the affiliated club market in ‘competition’ to the BMFA) that’s not an issue for most.

LMA insurance (as all our members will know as it’s printed on their membership card insurance summary) is worldwide

LMA insurance includes crown indemnity

LMA insurance has no excess payment on liability claims

LMA insurance includes member to member cover

LMA insurance includes free travel cover for modelling trips

[LMA Dave]

Thankyou Rob, you save me the bother of doing it myself.

[LUKE GRICE]

Question ? Is the LMA a closed shop ? Do you have to have LMA insurance to be in the LMA. Or will they accept MBFA

[Rob Buckley]

If you're an LMA member, you get LMA insurance. The same as the BMFA. Neither association is a 'closed shop' despite what some are seemingly desperate to believe.

[Mark a]

I'm just a humble club member who is happy to pay £33 per year to the BMFA for insurance which gives me piece of mind and an organization to turn to should the worst happen. I think £33 is value for money as I can spend more than that on a meal out.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Rob Buckley on 10/01/2017 20:51:54:

If you're an LMA member, you get LMA insurance. The same as the BMFA. Neither association is a 'closed shop' despite what some are seemingly desperate to believe.

Well, I can't speak about LMA - I have no membership experience - but I can comment on the BMFA and whether it is effectively a "closed shop" or not.

I wasn't going to raise this matter - but as it has already been raised I will.

Like many in the UK I live in a fairly crowded part of the world. There is not space for a new flying club. Also, note that our local authority does not allow modelling flying in our parks or on our beaches. So, if you are to fly RC models you need to join one of the existing clubs. There isn't really another way.

Within 1 hours drive of my house there are two clubs. Both are BMFA Affliated clubs. Now, the BMFA have a rule - for a club to have affliated status all of its members (no exceptions!) must hold BMFA membership.

So, in practice, if I am to fly RC models I have to be a member of BMFA - i have no real choice. If I was not a member - I couldn't join either of these clubs and so I wouldn't be able to follow my hobby. Whether I believe it is a splendid organisation or not - in practical terms I have to join the BMFA.

Please explain to me how that is not effectively a "closed shop"?

BEB

[LUKE GRICE]

So end of the day if we want to fly and have insurance , we have to join the LMA OR MBFA.