3 or 4 channel

[Barrie Warehand 2]

Can I fly a 4 channel powered glider with the ailerons disabled (Fixed). So control would be Throttle , Elevator and Rudder . What do you think?.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Depends on the amount of yaw/roll coupling inherent in the design.

[McG 6969]

Hi Barrie,

Some powered vintage gliders like the Graupner Busard didn't have ailerons, so I guess if you have enough dihedral on your model it should work... but as Martin wrote it will depend on the design.

With a bit of patience more competent ideas than mine will appear soon, I guess.

Chris

BRU - BE / CTR Busard Control

[perttime]

And what kind of stability is built into the glider design. What glider is it?

Why? Because you only have 3 channel radio?

[kc]

Might be better to use ailerons and not the rudder, if there is little dihedral.

[Don Fry]

If it's a proper design for aileron, it won't fly with rudder only.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

This glider a Sean Banister 'Bluebottle' flies with just aileron and elevator, it does not have a rudder. The plane was built in about 1981 by my nephew Nigel during his last school summer holiday using my finance. He flew it successfully at Mill Hill in Sussex. I found it a bit twitchy. It's still in my loft complete with 27Mhz radio.

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 26/09/2016 21:38:22

[Simon Chaddock]

Barrie

If the glider has ailerons there is a fair chance it needs them. In other words it will not be stable enough to be flown safely rudder only.

If you are limited to 3 channels you would do much better to keep the ailerons and fix the rudder.

Ailerons are the primary control to create the bank required to turn. The rudder has just a secondary influence.

In a powered glider motor torque can be significant and again ailerons are the best way of countering it.

This may look like it has a rudder (it is actually painted on the fin!) and flies very nicely on just aileron and elevator.

Its pretty good at basic aerobatics as well.

[PatMc]

Barrie, as others have said, ailerons would almost definitely be a preferable & more practical choice than rudder.

What model is it ?

Mike, I'm sure the Bluebottle wasn't a Bannister design. IIRC it was a fee plan & designed by Clive Smalley as a follow up to his Orange Box rudder elevator only glider, also a freeby.

[Peter Miller]

This model is 61" wingspan. Those tips are up with 4" dihedral.

The V tail which is rudder and elevator combined is extremely effective

My Guru, Dave Thornburg in "the Old Buzzards Soaring Book"quotes 2" per foot for V dihedral. His table showed 4" for my tips and that worked well

[Barrie Warehand 2]

As always thanks for your interest in my question. It was a "what if" question and is an extension of my quest to start flying again but with a problem with my right hand. My recent posting "Dicky Right Hand" prompted a wealth of info which resulted in changes to my Dx5e and other seriously useful advice. I'm flying an Art Tech. Diamond 1100 which is now has a disabled rudder so that the right stick just operates the throttle and left for elevator and ailerons. I was qurious to know if I could fly on just. elevator and rudder but I'm not too sure now due to hardly any dihedral. Many thanks. Barrie

[J D 8]

Why do you want to do this? Is it because you have only ever flown rudder elevator? If so do as others have said and fly it aileron elevator I am sure you will manage it fine.

[perttime]

Posted by Barrie Warehand 2 on 27/09/2016 09:59:37:

... problem with my right hand.

...I'm flying an Art Tech. Diamond 1100 which is now has a disabled rudder so that the right stick just operates the throttle and left for elevator and ailerons

Looks like a model that would be perfectly happy with elevator and ailerons - and not so much with elevator and rudder.

[Steve Houghton 1]

I was about to suggest that you could always mix rudder into ailerons, but I see you are using a DX5e so I doubt you can do that.

Steve

A470soaring

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Pat Mac.

You are right about the Bluebottle, it was a free plan and not an SB design. Thanks for clearing that up .

It might have been a free plan but I paid for all the materials. At the time over 30 years ago it was meant to be a glider for me to practice with ailerons but as I mentioned before it was too twitchy for me. I made the Flair Heron not long afterwards which was and still is far more stable. At the same time my nephew made a Phase 6 which he considered better than the Heron.

With full house IC models of course they can be flown without rudder inputs assuming rudder is not needed on take-offs. Some of my planes need rudder inputs on take offs especially those with long take off runs, whereas the lightweight models are off the ground in no time. Some like the Weston Cougar will ground loop on take off and a strategy that works is to restrain it on full revs and then release it and use minimal rudder prior to take off which is usually achieved in a few yards

[MattyB]

Posted by Barrie Warehand 2 on 27/09/2016 09:59:37:

As always thanks for your interest in my question. It was a "what if" question and is an extension of my quest to start flying again but with a problem with my right hand. My recent posting "Dicky Right Hand" prompted a wealth of info which resulted in changes to my Dx5e and other seriously useful advice. I'm flying an Art Tech. Diamond 1100 which is now has a disabled rudder so that the right stick just operates the throttle and left for elevator and ailerons. I was qurious to know if I could fly on just. elevator and rudder but I'm not too sure now due to hardly any dihedral. Many thanks. Barrie

There is no uncertainty here - your model will not fly well (if at all) on rudder and ailerons alone, there is just not enough dihedral. As you can see from this video it is quite small and aerobatic; tbh I cannot imagine with that small wing and relatively low aspect ratio it's glide performance is really that great. I suspect it is more a power model with better than average power off glide than it is a genuine glider. Either way, stick to ailerons, elevator and throttle or buy a TX with CAR mixing and you should be fine.

Edited By MattyB on 27/09/2016 14:45:58

[Barrie Warehand 2]

OK I've soaked up all of the advice and comments for which I appreciate. The bottom line seems to be, leave is as it is and that is what I will do. It's just that as I'm making changes to get around my problem. I'm looking at all alternatives . Regards, Barrie

[Barrie Warehand 2]

PS .In answer to John (Davies). Yes all my past gliders were elevator/ rudder only. Most were High Stsrt and were fitted with dethermalisers. B,

[MattyB]

Posted by Barrie Warehand 2 on 28/09/2016 09:29:02:

OK I've soaked up all of the advice and comments for which I appreciate. The bottom line seems to be, leave is as it is and that is what I will do. It's just that as I'm making changes to get around my problem. I'm looking at all alternatives . Regards, Barrie

Your best long term solution is to invest in a TX with some flexible mixing options that can help you to fly 4 and above channel models despite the issue with your hand. One of my club mates who suffered a stroke still regularly flies 6ch moulded F3X style gliders despite a similar problem with one of his hands - simple CAR and snap flap mixes mean he can operate these models at probably 80-85% of their potential performance. You don't need a top of the line set to do this either - a DX6 Gen 2 can do a plenty of mixing, whilst a Taranis can do almost anything you can think of.