Solarfilm

[Martin McIntosh]

I have used silver Solarfilm on warbirds which require painting for a long time now.

However, I seem to have run into trouble with it. Normally I would set my iron to just under setting 1 (out of 3) to tack the film on but I am now up to at least setting 2 which is pretty hot and higher than I would use even for polyester. It is even reluctant to stick to itself. The iron is not at fault because it works normally on polyester, so has the composition of the film changed? It takes an even higher temperature to seal and shrink.

I use this stuff because it is normally paintable and being thicker than the solid colours is quite easy to use.

Thinking back I posted on my Mossie build that some of the paint did not stick properly, despite coating with Primol.

Anyone else had similar problems over the past year or so?

I think that I shall have to call the manufacturer to see if they have changed their product in any way.

If it aint broke, don`t fix it.

[Keith Evans 3]

Hi Martin

I had a similar problem about a couple of years ago when using some very old Solarfilm that was donated to me from a member of my club .

I phoned up Solarfilm and asked if ageing had any effect on its properties .

They weren't sure but said if it sticks it should be o.k.

I threw out the old stock just to be sure .

Keith .

[Chris Walby]

Sorry to butt in with a slightly off topic question, but I have a few edges of film overlapping film where there is a glue mark.

Any advice on how to get the glue off without marking the film? Thanks in advance

[Denis Watkins]

Test your solvent on a tiny area 1st, using a cotton bud, then commit to a full wipe quickly with the chosen brew. Try Meths, nail varnish remover, enamel thinners, turps, and finally the aggressive cellulose thinners. It does depend how long the glue has been present.

On topic, Solar film does not fair well when stored for years in the loft, and most plastics do not fair well in sunshine. I believe a cool dry place is preferred, and I have had old solar film fail to stick well and to tare easily. Fresh film is preferred

 

Edited By Denis Watkins on 17/01/2017 11:40:32

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Chris Walby on 17/01/2017 11:25:33:

Sorry to butt in with a slightly off topic question, but I have a few edges of film overlapping film where there is a glue mark.

Any advice on how to get the glue off without marking the film? Thanks in advance

H.K film ? nail varnish remover works, you have to rub a bit, but it doesn't get under the film as it's not too aggressive.

John

[Cuban8]

Yes, I can confirm that Solarfilm does deteriorate with age, but it must be said that the material I was dealing with was possibly twenty years old from some stock that I'd had stored away (albeit in a dry and cool cupboard).

The adhesive lacked any real 'stickiness' and the material had lost its usual pliability. It was a new and unwrapped reel that I'd given to a club mate for a small model he was building and he asked me to help him as he was having trouble with getting the covering right.

Naturally assumed it was his covering technique, but no, the film was at fault and had to be binned.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 17/01/2017 12:05:14

[Don Fry]

I would be wary of nail varnish remover. It has water, and the problem bit, may have oils present. Get some pure acetone. A good cleaner, solvent and degreaser. Glass fibre moulders use lots.

[Don Fry]

Anyway, I have a minds eye on all my old bits of solar film, of indifferent colours, some packets of beige! Who knows how old. I think as part of a general declutter, I will bin the lot.

[kc]

I thought I would check the Solarfilm website to see if it gave any info about a change of spec, but nothing there I could see that would help.

However I did find some useful stuff such as this section about making insignia with Solartrim which is useful and the circle cutter seems a simple gadget anyone could make. I particularly noted the method of use - pulling the Solartrim round instead of the 'compass' part - which seem worth a try. Seems Derek Hardman's genius lives on. ( if he were asked about any problem with covering he would always say " do you use a thermometer to check the iron temp? or did you use a heatgun?" so I bet that what they say now if you ask them about a problem! )

There is also a chart with all the materials specs and info here on the Solarfilm website which is a handy reference sheet.

[Martin McIntosh]

Interesting replies, thanks, but the film in question was only bought last year from my usual supplier. The first roll tried on the Mossie may have been a bit older and was binned in the end. The one I have just tried is quite new - similar problem. I need a lot more now so got 4m off the roll from Leeds model shop, another regular supplier.

Guess what? Same problem but at least it goes on OK eventually using a lot of heat. The previous stuff actually fell off when I turned a wing panel upside down!

[Nigel R]

any chance it could be the iron?

Also, I found this a while back:

[Martin McIntosh]

No, it is not the iron because as I said in my first post it works normally with polyester, i.e. Supershrink or Oracover.

I must have used miles of this stuff over 50 or so years since its introduction with the very smelly, grease proof paper backed original version.

I cannot now even inadvertently stick two adhesive coated sides together with only the heat from my hands, which was always a problem with this type of film. Just hope that this time it takes Humbrol enamel OK once Primol coated.

Actually doing a wing almost as we speak.

[kc]

I wondered if the iron was playing up but when I read some was bought 'off the roll' I wondered if it was really genuine Solarfilm or perhaps another brand. Of course there is nothing wrong with unbranded films like that sold by Hobbyking but they are different.

[Cuban8]

A bit reluctant to let you into a secret, but Hobby King covering film is great stuff at a price that won't give your wallet a hiding especially if you've a big covering job to do.

I'm covering a 1/3 scale Turbulent (old Precedent kit) and the cost of Solarfilm or Profilm for it would have had me in the poor house. HK covering works out to £1 per metre in 5M rolls, so we'll remain financally solvent for now

I was sceptical about it until I saw a club mate's 4M glider covered in it and the superb finish that he ended up with. I've nothing bad to say about the product at all. The colour is solid and the film can be lifted easily and re-applied if you make a mistake without leaving behind pigment (adhesive is clear). In the UK warehouse as well.

[Keith Evans 3]

Hi Martin

Although you bought some more "new" film .I wonder how long it had been on the shelf ,either at your LSM or even in the Solarfilm warehouse .
What is the colour of your film? .I believe mine was a dark green .

I don't know if there is any type of identification on Solarfilm that might identify its age or batch number that could be fed back to Solarfilm for ref . purposes .

Keith

[Erfolg]

Those who find that the adhesive on present day Solafilm is pants, will find I totally agree.

I am finishing a new model, using Solafilm, purchased in the last month from a northern model shop.

I find that it is lifting already at the edges. I am sticking the edges down using a Universal Fabric adhesive, after a few days, as the film just peels away, after a very short time.

In the recent past this phenomena could have caused my TH, CS to crash, as the upper covering on the wing peeled back in flight.

I certainly will be looking else where in future for my film covering. I will just need to plan a bit further in front, then purchase via the Internet, something probably from the Far East.

[Tony Cook]

Couple of things.. 1) to remove glue or colours from using different films, try Mr.Sheen and microfibre cloth (brush away from the join. 2) the HK films have a shelf life. When new they are cheap and work well. If you store for a year or so its a pig to remove the backing and often the paint comes away from the outer coating..ended up binning it. Good luck

[Martin McIntosh]

The Model Shop Leeds does not sell unbranded film, it is not old stock and genuine as was the previous stuff in single branded rolls from The Balsa Cabin, so no problems there. The whole point is that silver Solarfilm is easy to apply and can be painted. I ordered some HobbyKing so called silver some years ago to do a 96" Hurricane. When it arrived, the roll was very heavy and turned out to be aluminium based. Went on great, very cheap, but the paint comes off very easily, otherwise quite good. I suspect that it is polyester based.

[kc]

That Solarfilm video in the link above is excellent and it's compulsive viewing! I watched it right to the end and got some useful tips -especially on Solartrim and the use of water when applying. What a genius Derek Hardman was - the inventor of Solarfilm plus the machines to make it - and an excellent demonstrator too. Anyone who attended his demos at Sandown show etc will not forget them as he had very strong opinions on how to apply his products and heat guns seemed a pet hate.

[Don Fry]

Heat guns are a pet hate of all the manufacturers of heat shrink products, whether for models or full size, because you can't know how hot the covering is getting.

Bit puzzled by the problem here though. If the iron is good, and been checked against known films, the problem seems to point towards a bad batch.

Posted by an idiot, who has just covered the tailplane of a new hack, Peter Miller Bootlace. I had a bit of masking tape marked TOP FACE, on the top face, to prevent confusions. Covered the bottom face. Covered the top face, and then did the top face again. Don't take much to get confusions.

[Nigel R]

" I watched it right to the end and got some useful tips"

So did I, kept me up way past bedtime on a schoolnight. In the past I always used a heatgun, but it was painfully obvious from the video that Derek H just set the iron to the one temperature and that did everything required.

[Erfolg]

KC

I am no at all sure that the machines as used by Solar film are unique, in any way.

In my very early years in engineering, I worked for a short time as a designer of wall paper machines (and some other company machinery) for what was then Reid International, whose products then were branded as Crown, Polycell and probably a few other brands.

The wall paper machines, often printed patterns onto yep, you guessed it, wall paper. This was done by a system of troughs of paint, a finely grooved metal drum with a scraper, leading to a cascade of other rollers of various types, to apply a controlled amount and pattern onto the so called web. There were an arrangement of these devices arranged around a drum to produce the desired pattern. The basics of the machines were war booty from WW1 from Germany.

I then went to a food packaging (amongst other things) printing machine manufacturer, where the web was now a polymer. Perhaps more interestingly, the coloured printing was applied via films, which were a sandwich, comprising a carrier film, a wax layer, a pigment layer, with a adhesive layer. What surprised me the basis of the film production machines, was the almost identical to the Crown wall paper machine, though simpler, without the multiple stages and tipping rollers. The transfer being activated by a heated die, again on a roller, or a plate.

It could or may not be a coincidence that at the time that Crown Wallpapers were manufactured in Nelson and Colne. As it was possibly a coincidence that the founder of the packaging printing company lived possibly 2 or less miles from the Crown engineering division.

I am guessing that the basic ideas and devices for this type of thing, goes back at least 100 years.

From memory, the cost of the printing film, was extremely low, as you can guess, nearly every food comes wrapped in some polymer wrapper. Much of what we all buy at Tesco et al, comes in probably 0.5m^2 of film. It is a good job for our budgets that the total cost of the whole package cost does not reflect what we pay for a similar quantity of our coverings.

[kc]

Well Erfolg my memory might be wrong but RCME published some article about Solarfilm during the 1990's and I think it said Derek Hardman designed and built the machines that made Solarfilm. Could be wrong but just making all those covering materials and forming a major company to sell them qualifies for a major place amongst aeromodelling greats in my opinion. But possibly he just based his machines on old machinery from other products - no point in re-inventing the wheel. That RCME article said he did a lot of experimenting over years to get Solarflim right.

Lancashire seems the main place in the country ( and the world at one time) for that sort of machinery and wire making machinery, possibly all stems from making weaving machinery way back..

[Erfolg]

KC

There is nothing like a bit of PR stretching the truth.

It did strike me that Crown did sell of some of its machinery in the 70s, as they moved into the blown vinyls and the demand for conventional printed wallpapers plummeted.

You are certainly right about the manufacturing activities in the NW in the 70s, again when working for the then BICC (cable makers), we had wire drawing equipment. I was sent to i think Johnson Wire Works? or something wire makers, to be given advice on wire drawing. They drew all types of wire on a scale that is today unbelievable to me.

Again I was sent to a company, called General Engineering, again to see and be educated on blowing polythene, pre-streching polymer for shrink wrap. As they then produced these machines for industry. Recently I went past the company on a tram car, just to see an empty shell.

I have often found that very little is really new. Most is a rearrangement of others ideas.

Like many i have let a lot of opportunities slip by. Here in the NW you could once pick up a small lathe for the price of a few pints. I choose to purchase a drawing board. Now use for painting, although it once was my modelling board. I have never drawn anything on it. I am guessing the more enlightened picked up some old wall paper, or maybe polymer film equipment at a bargain price and adapted it for another market.

When I look back, it is distressing to remember how many lathes, milling and other manufacturing machine tools were shipped out of the UK. Being part of the process is now perhaps the most distressing aspect, although I never saw any of the money.