Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Always nice to see how welcoming, open and forward thinking our hobby is,.....not. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Please don't tar us all with the brush of the most vocal BEB! I think that my start point would be that the only valid grounds for banning classes of aircraft at a particular site would be arguments of safety or that they pose a real risk to the continued use of the site (e.g. due to noise). As for the compatibility issue, I agree that this is real but, as others have said, incompatible flying styles amongst fixed wing pilots can and do cause similar problems so it is up to us to sort out between us a sensible way of operating. Ours is a 'Model Flying Club' (not a 'model aeroplane club' ) and, if I remember correctly, our constitution requires us to encourage all forms of model flying. Each new development always provokes a few 'ban them' reactions - I recall similar reactions from a few glider pilots when the first person turned up at the slope with an electric motor in the nose of his model, and again when a few people started enjoying themselves with EPP flying wings. Eventually tolerance and common sense prevailed. Hopefully it will once more. Edited By Trevor on 07/02/2017 09:31:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The word "drone" is so unspecific that the question is vague as is. I fly Fixed Wing (Petrol, Glow and Electric, 3D, Pylon, Scale, etc), Helicopters (Glow and Electric, 3D and Scale), Hybrids (VTOL) and Multicopters (Race Type). Like it or not, all of these are in modern parlance being classed as drones, especially by legislators across the world!. My club welcomes ANY type of radio control flying models (and a little free flight) under the weight rule and kept under 400'. The only potential friction that has to be managed is the "patch grabber" and that could be 3D prop hanging plane, hovering Heli or Multi, so type does not matter, it's what the pilot does (or is allowed to do!) with it. 10 years ago when I joined that club there were a few concerned glances when I arrived with a Helicopter, which dissipated immediately I took off, vacated the patch, and flew circuits along with the fixed wing pilots. Recently we have gained as a club as a couple of people have camera drones and we have gained some good air to air video footage. We also have a couple of commercial drone pilot members who come to test and check. No dinosaurs here. By contrast another club I have had experience of in the recent past has a separate Heli field as their view is that "the two do not mix". Use of Multi in any form is unspecified and in the event of enquiry it seems not to have been considered and so the applicant was thoroughly discouraged (and then came to us). Presumably they do not care about or do not have any membership numbers issue. Yet! No further comments on right or wrong here, I'll leave you to decide who has the most sensible policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 One Multi rotor claim that you pilots may be able to help me with, that causes a stall in proceedings is the Multi rotor pilots argument that they already have adequate insurance with another company. Our club field, being BMFA affiliated, leads to a discussion where they need " said field " insurance to fly at this field, has lost me at least 2 memberships. My question is, as an Insured pilot, do you feel aggreived or discriminated against, with what you feel is extra insurance at the BMFA field? Edited By Denis Watkins on 07/02/2017 10:50:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Not met or heard of that problem with leisure pilots. The commercial pilots fly on their commercial insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Does it say that because a club is BMFA affiliated all users must be BMFA members to have the BMFA insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Posted by Cliff 1959 on 06/02/2017 10:45:36: As Andy points out there is the potential of drone flyers 'to take up the more traditional aspects of our sport', which has to be good of course. Not a "potential" here, but fact. QED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 It does state in the "affiliation" that 100% of the members must have BMFA insurance Dave, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Not just insurance - it's a condition of affiliation that all flying or organising club members are BMFA members. In our case, we openly declare that we're primarily a fixed wing club. This doesn't mean that we won't accept rotary wing and multirotor operation (we recently negotiated FPV permission with the airspace authority to accommodate a member's request to practice for racing) but we make it clear to prospective members that these are minority interests and that we have extremely limited (if any) training facilities. When a member wants to operate something with whirling wings we informally agree a slot and we are lucky enough (or have perhaps encouraged such a culture?) that our members are very considerate to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Jones Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 No. Next question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 07/02/2017 08:52:26: Always nice to see how welcoming, open and forward thinking our hobby is,.....not. BEB Actually in general I think it is open and forward thinking, certainly in my experience most individuals and clubs certainly are, there are of course a small number of exceptions, sadly however, it is the nature and curse of forums and other social media that the negatives get far more exposure than the positives which sadly can help to foster innacurate perceptions. Back to the topic under discussion though, it is pleasing that my article has generated some discussion and hopefully I have been able to positively influence some perceptions. I have an excellent response to my request for "Drone friendly" clubs and the register is growing with quite a number still to add. You can see the work in progress at **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Now Now...don't be tarring forums with a negative brush, you've more here speaking positively on the topic. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Posted by john stones 1 on 07/02/2017 14:03:51: Now Now...don't be tarring forums with a negative brush, you've more here speaking positively on the topic. John Touche! It was rather a sweeping statement I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Fair do's, i'll put us on the register later John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Flyer Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 As we are a fixed wing club we do not allow or recommend non fixed wing flyers to join. That is made clear. However all our members can fly rotary wing aircraft after 2 years of membership. This is made clear to all. We have a number of members flying FPV racing drones as well as fixed wing and they get on well with other members. They set up very interesting racing courses in the fields with hoops etc . As we have a well balanced membership there have not been any conflicts between different interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 One of the two clubs I am in does not permit any model with powered rotors. This is one of the conditions specified in the planning permission, and from the MOD who own the land. Don't know why, I wasn't in the club when the permissions were granted, but suspect it's to do with perceived safety, as there is public access and we get quite a few dog walkers. My other club has a private field, and is fortunate to have pretty unrestricted flying times. There are dedicated rotary wing slots, the rest of the time it's by agreement between fliers, but generally it's felt that both types flying together is not ideal. Assuming "drone" means multirotor, I don't see why they should be treated differently to helicopters, and the BMFA guidelines applied if they are FPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Stevenson Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 If it flies in the sky, enjoy it, make a bit of room for everyone. We have elderly fliers who have great enjoyment flying their high wingers. However we also have a young man who flies his large petrol plane superbly, we normally give him space and enjoy watching him (feeling jealous)! Years ago it was no choppers, the sky didn't fall in when the rules were changed and I enjoy watching them as well. We have a guy who flies a large drone and does commercial work with it. I enjoyed watching his flights with the goggles on even though I have no desire to fly one. We don't mix flying together just make time for each other as fixed wing flying is the main flying. if you don't like watching others enjoying themselves take a chill pill and have a cuppa, or go home and moan to the wife she will probably be used to you?? Either that or watch Victor Meldrum on TV or by looking in the mirror Edited By Derek Stevenson on 07/02/2017 16:26:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I have read the above. I accept that some sites have special problems. But, you must have a special club with huge numbers of pilots all wanting to do hours a week in the air. Or spend so much time gassing, prevaricating, and generally farting about, that you have no time to sort the flying out. Just my £0.01p worth. On the other hand, I was up the club. I was flying my Fokker D VII, handmade. A fellow club member turned up, with a drone. We agreed, you fly there, I fly there, we do not hit each other. (We have previous with indoor stuff). There's me thinking, arrrrrrrr, but they don't fly for long. Then he pulls 10 batteries out of his bag, one at a time, like a magician with his bunnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I think there are several issues: Safety: Our site is shared with microlights so we have a set of procedures to ensure that the risk is reduced as much as possible, such as no FPV, no RtH and no GPS, as all of these things may pose a challenge. We also require an observer stood with the rotor-craft pilot. By flying around the sky, as you generally do with fixed wing, you can see and hear an approaching aircraft, whereas flying close in with a heli or MR wouldn't achieve this. Compatibility with the site: Would the flying of a multi-rota aircraft be incompatible with the site, its layout, other users, location etc? Compatibility with other aircraft: Since time began fixed wing and rotary have been seen as separate and are generally not flown at the same time. This depends on the pilots, their skill level and the type/style of flying but the airspace can be shared, either at the same time or for set time periods. Horses for courses really. CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 At our club we are lucky enough to have a smaller separate patch which was used by the heli guys but has been taken over by drone pilots. They've set up an FPV race course....great fun to watch...nearly all young enthusiastic lads. Having belonged to a club which had both helis & FW using the same patch I would urge caution as the two types of aircraft (rotary & fixed wing) have very different flight patterns so some basic & common sense procedures should be agreed & adhered to by all pilots to avoid any conflicts of airspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff 1959 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Wow, thanks for all the ideas and comments guys, it seems everyone has a view ... which is how it should be. The experience of other clubs is exactly what I was hoping for, thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Good luck at your meeting Cliff. The can will soon fill up with worms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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