Electric Cars.

[Ron Gray]

13 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

You have to start somewhere

Spot on, get the infrastructure in place then feed it with more and more green energy.

 

3 hours ago, IDD15 said:

Most importantly the rate at which devices are coming online is increasing sharply

As I posted a week or so back, I've seen for myself the number of new stations that have been installed locally so it's not 'fake news'.

[Learner]

7 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Spot on, get the infrastructure in place then feed it with more and more green energy.

 

As I posted a week or so back, I've seen for myself the number of new stations that have been installed locally so it's not 'fake news'.

I suppose if you've got an electric car you have to search around and you will find new charging points. but when you haven't you dont.

There are no public charge points in the village I live and on my trips to the two town centres locally I only pass 2. I expect there are some more in town but I havent seen them.

[Ron Gray]

Unlike petrol stations the vast majority of public chargers are quite inconspicuous so you really do need an app (s) to show you where they are. 

[Learner]

14 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Unlike petrol stations the vast majority of public chargers are quite inconspicuous so you really do need an app (s) to show you where they are. 

Thats reminded me theres a couple in Tescos car park but not in the end I usually park. They've been there years and were free to use when first put in.

[Tim Kearsley]

16 minutes ago, Learner said:

Thats reminded me theres a couple in Tescos car park but not in the end I usually park. They've been there years and were free to use when first put in.

The Pod Point chargers in Tesco car parks were free to use until earlier this year I believe.  Likewise, the Rushden Lakes shopping centre, a few miles from me, had all its chargers free to use until the end of June this year.  Although I used them fairly regularly, I think free charging is a bad idea.  The Tesco chargers, for example, ended up in some locations being monopolised by DPD electric vehicles.  At my own local Tesco one charger was almost entirely occupied by DPD vans.  You don't expect to drive to a garage and fill up with free petrol, so why should electric vehicles be any different?

[Learner]

11 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

  You don't expect to drive to a garage and fill up with free petrol

Unfortunately some do!

[IDD15]

2 hours ago, Learner said:

I suppose if you've got an electric car you have to search around and you will find new charging points. but when you haven't you dont.

There are no public charge points in the village I live and on my trips to the two town centres locally I only pass 2. I expect there are some more in town but I havent seen them.

TBH I think this is by far and away the biggest challenge to EV adoption.

 

There need to be a lot more fast (7kw) chargers installed in communal areas and for street parking. These chargers are relatively cheap at around £1k as well. It needs Government to get behind councils to just donate a bit of land in these places for chargers. There are plenty of firms who will do the rest for the council without costs to them.

 

It's not right that people who can't charge at home/work face this barrier. Some councils get it but many do not.

 

Idd

[GrumpyGnome]

2 minutes ago, IDD15 said:

It needs Government to get behind councils to just donate a bit of land in these places for chargers. 

 

No thanks, we don't want a concrete car park in our village, nor do we want more traffic on our rural roads.....

[Ron Gray]

Whilst personal charges do cost iro £1K, public chargers are somewhat more expensive. I’ve seen public car parks where the local authorities have installed chargers in some of the bays, I think this is a good approach. From what I’ve seen, supermarkets aren’t making a big effort, but in other areas it maybe different. 

[Erfolg]

I will not be buying a McLaren Artura Hybrid, apparently one caught fire on a test drive, and burnt out, in Leeds.

 

If you can afford a EV, why would you worry paying to recharge the battery. The purchase price already has a subsidy in it. If you do, a thought, you will soon have to pay more, to compensate for the reduction in both Fuel Duty, Vat and road tax of IC vehicles. Almost certainly there will be increases in current road tax, to compensate from the extra damage that heavier vehicles will inflict on the roads.

 

I think it is somewhat ironic, that any one who suggests that net zero will and will continue to come at some cost, is an anti, rather than a realist. 

[Ron Gray]

9 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

will not be buying a McLaren Artura Hybrid, apparently one caught fire on a test drive, and burnt out, in Leeds.

Gosh if you use that logic then you’ll never buy anything because, at some point in time, failures happen. The true stats are how many failures or was it an isolated example.

 

9 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

If you can afford a EV, why would you worry paying to recharge the battery

Do you really mean that? 
 

9 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

If you do, a thought, you will soon have to pay more, to compensate for the reduction in both Fuel Duty, Vat and road tax of IC vehicles.

Pure guesswork on your part, for all you know those who already have an EV may be exempt if and when a tax is levied.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Ron Gray

[Ron Gray]

10 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

compensate from the extra damage that heavier vehicles will inflict on the roads

Pure tosh.

 

 

[Learner]

26 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Pure tosh.

 

 

Maybe not if theres a rush to buy an ev hummer at just over 4 tons and maybe a new HEV license too.

A snip at £180k.

 80000 pre orders in America although its cheaper over there.

Battery alone is heavier than my car!!

Edited October 18, 2023 by Learner

[Frank Skilbeck]

29 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

I will not be buying a McLaren Artura Hybrid, apparently one caught fire on a test drive, and burnt out, in Leeds.

 

If you can afford a EV, why would you worry paying to recharge the battery. The purchase price already has a subsidy in it. If you do, a thought, you will soon have to pay more, to compensate for the reduction in both Fuel Duty, Vat and road tax of IC vehicles. Almost certainly there will be increases in current road tax, to compensate from the extra damage that heavier vehicles will inflict on the roads.

 

 

 

But the government have just gone the other way on road tax, now it costs the same to tax a big heavy IC 4 x 4 as a small IC town car, after the first year. But maybe vehicle weight could be a tax policy after all a heavier vehicle will use more petrol/diesel/electricity than a lighter one, or maybe link it to consumption

[Frank Skilbeck]

Wrong post

Edited October 18, 2023 by Frank Skilbeck

[Tim Kearsley]

6 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

What are you driving! it's a 7.4 kwh battery which will be less than 100kg, the whole car only weighs 1400 kg, about 200kg more than a Fiesta.

Er, not sure where you're getting this from Frank.  The EV Hummer weighs in excess of 4,000kg and the battery is about 1,400kg.  That aside, what's the relevance, really?  It's hardly a "normal" EV.  Just the usual excess you expect from America. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Tim Kearsley

[Martin Dance 1]

I've been driving an EV for just over three years. I  live in Reading and the number of charging places has increased by about tenfold in that time. In fact my local Waitrose is having chargers installed as I write this. The only downside of these car park/ supermarket chargers is that they tend to be 7Kwh chargers, so not really useful unless you are going to be parked for two hours or more. As a man of course i'm never going to be shopping for that length of time😁

[Tim Kearsley]

1 hour ago, Erfolg said:

I will not be buying a McLaren Artura Hybrid, apparently one caught fire on a test drive, and burnt out, in Leeds.

Not sure if this is being referred to to infer that the battery is to blame.  The Artura is a hybrid and the reason for the fire during the test drive is unknown, or at least hasn't been made public.  However, there have been issues with the Artura in the USA regarding fire risk caused by a fuel leak - nothing to do with the battery. 

[Ron Gray]

2 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

caused by a fuel leak

Right I’m never going to buy a petrol or diesel vehicle on the basis of that.

 

38 minutes ago, Learner said:

Maybe not if theres a rush to buy an ev hummer at just over 4 tons and maybe a new HEV license too.

A snip at £180k.

 80000 pre orders in America although its cheaper over there.

Battery alone is heavier than my car!!

Outside Chelsea there never was a big rush to buy the previous Hummers, under 1000 (H1, H2, H3) and the number still on the road is far less.

[Ron Gray]

10 minutes ago, Martin Dance 1 said:

tend to be 7Kwh chargers

I think Shell are rolling out the chargers in Waitrose and they tend to be 22kW and 50kW ones. 

[Erfolg]

I am really surprised how only the motor efficiency is considered, nearly always quoting max efficiency. No consideration of the switching losses. Total gross life time costs, be it energy or money should be considered, not just an element.

 

There have been recently some articles based on research that cast doubts on durability of batteries, compared to blanket claims.

 

With respect to both solar panels and wind turbines, there have been quite a few articles with respect to the various aspects. Invariably much is about returns and equipment life and the requirement for subsidy to get the investment, particularly off shore.

 

If you want to believe that it can all be had at no cost, what can I possibly say or even point at, it must all be untrue to a believer.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

12 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

I am really surprised how only the motor efficiency is considered, nearly always quoting max efficiency. No consideration of the switching losses. Total gross life time costs, be it energy or money should be considered, not just an element.

 

There have been recently some articles based on research that cast doubts on durability of batteries, compared to blanket claims.

 

With respect to both solar panels and wind turbines, there have been quite a few articles with respect to the various aspects. Invariably much is about returns and equipment life and the requirement for subsidy to get the investment, particularly off shore.

 

If you want to believe that it can all be had at no cost, what can I possibly say or even point at, it must all be untrue to a believer.

 

No one thinks there's no cost involved Erf, you made that up.

[Don Fry]

16 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

I am really surprised how only the motor efficiency is considered, nearly always quoting max efficiency. No consideration of the switching losses. Total gross life time costs, be it energy or money should be considered, not just an element.

 

There have been recently some articles based on research that cast doubts on durability of batteries, compared to blanket claims.

 

With respect to both solar panels and wind turbines, there have been quite a few articles with respect to the various aspects. Invariably much is about returns and equipment life and the requirement for subsidy to get the investment, particularly off shore.

 

If you want to believe that it can all be had at no cost, what can I possibly say or even point at, it must all be untrue to a believer.

But you assume or suggest no benefit for change, the consequences are catastrophic. We already see populations shifting to gain a living. How to cope with entire countries on the move. Look at the population of Bangladesh. The usual fix is call on the 4 horsemen. They sort it out.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

25 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

I am really surprised how only the motor efficiency is considered, nearly always quoting max efficiency. No consideration of the switching losses. Total gross life time costs, be it energy or money should be considered, not just an element.

 

There have been recently some articles based on research that cast doubts on durability of batteries, compared to blanket claims.

 

With respect to both solar panels and wind turbines, there have been quite a few articles with respect to the various aspects. Invariably much is about returns and equipment life and the requirement for subsidy to get the investment, particularly off shore.

 

If you want to believe that it can all be had at no cost, what can I possibly say or even point at, it must all be untrue to a believer.

 

Efficiency/performance claims ain't new, mankind has drooled over RPM, BHP, 0-60 time long before EV became a thing, you're just looking for a drum to bang.

Articles ? Yep there's plenty out there to cherry pick, to suit whichever slant you choose to take.

[Ron Gray]

34 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

 

There have been recently some articles based on research

Would you mind please sharing them?

 

35 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

With respect to both solar panels and wind turbines, there have been quite a few articles with respect to the various aspects. Invariably much is about returns and equipment life and the requirement for subsidy to get the investment, particularly off shore.

Which ones are you referring to?