Former Member Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Filled the Fiesta up yesterday afternoon, thirty quids worth of juice, payed at pump, in and out in four minutes I'd guess, probably quicker. And others suggest that I have a meal/coffee/ read the paper while my 'leccy charges, sorry, but come on. Vandalism - yes all cars are vulnerable, depending on where you leave them, but having a charge lead draped over the pavement and plugged into the car will be like leaving the windows wound down on your ICE vehicle or leaving the wheel brace and key to your alloys next to the vehicle. There are bad people out there, not all nice civilised aeromodellers like us Remember the craze for stealing VW badges from cars because a certain popular modern beat combo (I jest) at the time, fancied them as jewellery and the doughnuts who were impressed by their antics simply followed suit. "Ere Wayne, 'old me Stella and look what 'appens when I rip this plug out and stuff this coat 'anger dahn the plug"....... I can just see it now, what jolly japes. Not reactionary or anti electric for the sake of it, just being practical and pointing out the down sides that seem to be ignored or at best glossed over. Edited By Cuban8 on 17/03/2018 11:39:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 So, sad, Percy. Never seen Back To The Future II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I had my caravan power lead nicked once, connected whilst charging, even though it was locked at the caravan end, was chopped off and the plug pulled out from the IP65 socket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 How do you know it's pointless dross if you've never watched it ? lets have some balance here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 My favourite film trilogy. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Yes, familiarity does make us overlook things. If a different development path had happened, and we were driving electric vehicles, how would we react to a new-fangled petrol engine? "You mean it's got how many hundreds of moving parts?". "It needs new oil and filters every few thousand miles?". "I have to drive to a filling station to refuel with stuff that blows up if you go near it with a flame, and has to be carried around the country in huge trucks?". Just playing devil's advocate. Regarding battery fears, the Leaf's are warrantied for 8 years, Kias for 7 years etc. An 8 year old Focus is only worth a couple of grand, so we're not talking about a high value vehicle by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Percy, you and I are actually singing from the same song sheet. Yes, there are some that just won't budge ( I remember a family member who steadfastly refused to have a colour TV, because she thought it was unnatural and would give her headaches.........I don't recall living in a B&W world back then though. What I don't like, is that once again we're going down a path that hasn't been properly explored and all is being bet on future new technology to improve and fill the glaring gaps in what we're being sold as some sort of motoring nirvana. The country and its economy, rightly or wrongly, like it or not, relies on personal transport in order for it to operate. Look what happens when there's a fuel shortage caused by whatever, and see what happens. The time scale might be much extended, however, the results will be the same if we, IMO, continue the gamble of going exclusively non-fossil fuel while it's still readily available with reserves untapped and there is still much potential to clean it up further. The electric infrastructure just isn't going to be in place to cope along the lines of the current strings of fuel filling stations. Yes, I agree that things have to change in the next hundred years, but I submit that there are far more pressing issues that deserve our worry and action before setting premature deadlines to rid us of our ICE vehicles. Leave it to market forces, if 'leccy is any good it'll eventually triumph and people will be scrapping their old 'dirty' cars without having a gun held to their heads. In our little world of aeromodelling, 2.4 has pushed a perfectly good system to virtual extinction in but a few years.Why? because it's better, more reliable, more flexible etc etc. No government edicts, no tax bombshells, no shaming from dubious think-tanks - we just bought into it because of the advantages that we as consumers could plainly see - I think we may well have the same with electric vehicles in years to come, but for myself, it needs to be evolution rather that government pushed revolution. And I very much doubt that many drivers will be prepared to simply 'give it a go' on a whim..................I like elephants very much, but I don't need to own one to come to the conclusion that keeping one would not be a very sensible idea Edited By Cuban8 on 17/03/2018 12:50:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 17/03/2018 12:33:23: John I'll answer your question with another. How can all the electric car nay-sayers be so certain of their EV stances if they've never driven or owned one? No idea Percy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Posted by Brian Cooper on 17/03/2018 09:00:52: I have no issues with getting rid of petrol and diesel, but electric power is NOT the answer. . Vulnerable charging leads, poor range, questionable battery life and the prohibitive costs of replacing said batteries, all conspire to make EVs impractical. . . Hands up everyone who wants to buy a 5-year-old electric car which has never had its batteries replaced... Nope, can't see any hands raised. I would as you can check the battery condition and remaining range, whereas a 5 year old diesel DPF, how do you know if the car has been used for school trips around town or up and down the motorway. Is there a way of checking that the DPF isn't going to need replacing soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 You know the weather's rubbish, nothing else to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 John, it is easy to answer your question. As an ex-engineer, I used computers, steeper motors, Autocad, data bases and many other systems and devices due to them being able to deliver what was required for my project at that point in time. I ditched some gear box type drives, some paper systems, declined some main frame usage, because they had been superceded, clearly by other methods, in some cases they were to expensive, often the main reason was that they could not meet the technical requirement. I have never been tempted by by the time........the equipment will exceed what you want and need, particularly when a perfectly adequate device or system of known cost were available. It is easy to dismiss the concerns of those who raise, truly valid mass usage issues. Where journeys do require en-route charging, will there be the facilities for potentially thousands of vehicles to re-charge. Just consider a motorway service area. At present a vehicle is often refueled and payment made in no more than 4 minutes. Imagine how many charging points would be required when a vehicle is undergoing a !hr or longer recharge. Then there is the space issue. Again at a practical level, the station now needs a power supply greater than the presently in use, I would suggest. Again, you will not be happy paying for the installation of this additional infra structure, it should be the motorist who pays, not the tax payer. This type of scenario will be replicated for many instances. I really find it disturbing that enthusiasts for electric powered vehicles and Government ignore the present and future generation needs and capabilities. As Frank has pointed to, many in the industry allude to the issues, some almost have their heads above the parapet. It could be self preservation, saying, look the restrictions to industries electricity use is not our fault, it is Government policies and actions. The same is true with respect to electric bills and fuel poverty, it is pointed out it is the green component that is now significant (in this case it is the price of reducing Carbon emissions). Battery performance at present lags behind the majority of the populations usage needs. The guarantees are not absolute, in that the battery only brakes the guarantee when it is less than 65% of the initial rating. They are time limited. It is easy to be dismissive of the cable safety issue across pavements, at one time this would have been fine, today a Claims are Us agent is waiting to talk to any one. The point of moving the point of pollution still remains valid. Just today, the grid has repeated there remains a need for mixed generation capacity. Some of these issues grate with me, only a fool would not see that if the Steel Industry pays a higher carbon tax by a large factor, it will vulnerable to price. Yet many in the public demanded that something should be done. High electricity cost really do mean that aluminium smelting etc has a up hill struggle against lower cost producers. These things do matter to the UK, if we want to manufacture, it is not all about feeling good about ourselves, if we want a future for the next generations we need to consider all of the consequences. There is a parallel with the electrification of railways. The decision is not that clear cut. The draw back of Diesel trains is that they must carry the fuel with them and are therefore heavier increasing track wear, and are complex relative to electric trains. Yet when all the costs of providing the infrastructure is taken into account the argument the issue becomes clear cut. The faster the train goes, the better for electric as track wear is reduced, electric trains accelerate generally quicker due to lower weight. Where there is low track utilisation, then Diesel wins out. The overall efficiency with respect to energy usage, is generally broadly similar, in many cases, it is the extremes where each one can be shown to be clear winners. But for politicians, the engineering niceties do not matter, it is money and votes. I think most are ambivalent with respect to electric cars, other than recognising there are many issues to be resolved and to be anywhere as near as flexible as the IC vehicle, electric cars are probably 10 or more years away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Cuban8, you make a very good point about market forces dictating change. Our modelling examples of 2.4g and indeed the now mainstream adoption of EP for our models demonstrate how this happens, as did the almost overnight demise of c.r.t. televisions. I don't think the change to EVs will be quite so rapid, but given what we have already and the invesrment being made by established manufacturers and newcomers, I believe it will happen, and before 2040. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Great idea in principle but my toothbrush takes about 18hrs to charge a battery that could be charged in 15-20min via a direct connection. I suspect that delivering high power levels by induction poses serious problems, particularly in public places. Cars have been a fact of everyday life for a couple of generations now, yet we still end up leaving them in the road. I don't remember the streets being littered with bikes and horses overnight before the age of the car! If the advent of electric cars puts more pressure on developers (or even a change to the building regs?) to make sensible provision for them, then so much the better. Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I worry about the effeciency of induction charging, Tom. Surely it must be more lossy than copper? Not a concern for phones and toothbrushes, but when you are charging at a few kilowatts....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Jarvis Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Buses are already using induction charging at bus stops. http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/milton-keynes-wirelessly-charged-electric-buses/ They operate from 6am to 11.30pm Edited By Alan Jarvis on 18/03/2018 09:32:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Jarvis Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Last year, South Korea switched on a 12km (7.5-mile) road which can recharge electric vehicles as they drive over it, without the need for vehicles to stop at all. Two public buses are using the Online Electric Vehicle system, or OLEV, in the South Korean city of Gumi. The technology means the vehicles can be fitted with smaller, lighter batteries, reducing the amount of power required to drive them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Posted by Alan Jarvis on 18/03/2018 09:31:01: Buses are already using induction charging at bus stops. http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/milton-keynes-wirelessly-charged-electric-buses/ They operate from 6am to 11.30pm Edited By Alan Jarvis on 18/03/2018 09:32:46 We had something similar when I was a kid, not wireless it's true, they were called trolly buses. Modern versions are still in widespread use world-wide. Remember these very well in the early 60s, they were nicely appointed with comfortable seats and didn't vibrate like motor buses. The motor made a quiet but very sci-fi type whistling sound when operating, not unlike the early jets. Great times, big mistake to get rid of them.**LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Manchester too had the overhead cables for the trolley buses when I was a kid The Transformer House for Middleton trams is still their too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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