The Wright Stuff Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 BEB, Bob, I agree 100%. The bit I'm missing is quite where the 'cavalier approach' perception arose in the first place - reading back through Dave's posts, I felt they were polite, measured and suitably caveated already. I see no reason why he wouldn't progress through testing in exactly the systematic manner that BEB has correctly outlined. Is the actual issue here simply that it's off-topic for a 'does it exist?' OP question? In which case, guilty as charged for the lesser crime! But seriously, I'd be happy to hear about Dave's progress in a suitably titled new thread, making clear that it is not intended for beginners, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Unfortunately though TWS it isn't systematic is it - it's "let's just do it and see what happens"! There is no progression - or at least so far I've heard of none. There are no intermediate checkpoints where we can decide do we continue or do we detect the early signs of failure? That is one reason I use the expression "cavelier". A second would be that not only is it a "full on, all or nothing" attempt it's one that directly contradicts the explicit safety warnings of the manufacturer. Again I would say that is cavelier. Thirdly, there is at very best, even if it "works" supremely well, only partial control of the model. Direction of flight is random and turns are decided when the model hits the GPS fence. That is not a proper use of a GPS fence, which the CAA see as entirely a last resort safety feature only to be invoked when absolutely necessary, not the model's primary navigation system! So I believe they are three good reasons for saying that, as it stands, this is not acceptable on here. It comprises very poor practice. Now if that situation were to change - if these problems could be properly addressed - we'd be happy to reconsider. Dave of course is entirely free to do as he wishes, that's between him and his responsibilities as a pilot under the ANO (the bit about being reasonably confident, before take-off, that the flght can be completed safely springs to mind!) But whether it appears here is very different matter and we would need convincing that the safety issues have been addressed fully and responsibly. We can't be seen to be advocate potentially unsafe proceedures. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hess Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I think from your comments that you're missing one thing. The stabilisation and the auto-land can be switched back to normal control in a split-second. It's not just a question of setting it and hoping for the best. As I said, it's no different to using a buddy-box to hand over control to a beginner. In my experience as newb trainer for what was (probably still is), the largest model aero club in the country, I can tell you that they can put a plane into a spiral dive rather quickly. In fact I trained many without a buddy box because there weren't so many around back in the '80s. In that case, I had to wrestle the transmitter back off the newb, get orientation and then get the plane back under control before it hit the ground. No newb's plane was ever crashed, while I helped him to learn. Sorry to be sexist there, but I never saw a female flyer in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propwash67 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 I have only been on this site 2 hours and not sure if I want to use it much in the future, I am an aircraft mechanic and put thousands of people at 40k feet every day and you guys are worried about experimental toy airplanes, let it go man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) As you can see it was a heated debate some 4 years ago and long since lost in the fog of newer topics. There must be something that sparks your interest in the 100s of pages 🔍 https://forums.modelflying.co.uk/index.php Edited November 19, 2022 by cymaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Propwash67 said: I have only been on this site 2 hours and not sure if I want to use it much in the future, I am an aircraft mechanic and put thousands of people at 40k feet every day and you guys are worried about experimental toy airplanes, let it go man! And I was a Royal Air Force airframe fitter for 12 years and I still worry about my creations and how they fly and the safety aspects. Our investment in our models in terms of time and money may be insignificant to you but not to the average modeller. Anyone who isn't is a hazard to fellow modellers and spectators. You may also find that your expertise does not always help in the modelling world and there are aspects of modelling which your experience does not cover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 The thread hadn't had a post to it in four years, so saying let it go man isn't particularly appropriate, since presumably whoever is being told to let it go, actually let it go quite some time ago. Notwithstanding that one of the prominent previous posters to the thread was a highly valued and sadly missed stalwart of this site, who passed away some years ago. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 14 hours ago, Propwash67 said: I have only been on this site 2 hours and not sure if I want to use it much in the future Absolutely your prerogative..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 I miss BEB, good to see his name there again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 17 hours ago, Propwash67 said: I have only been on this site 2 hours and not sure if I want to use it much in the future, I am an aircraft mechanic and put thousands of people at 40k feet every day and you guys are worried about experimental toy airplanes, let it go man! Goodbye . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brunt Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 wow, interesting thread from a couple of years ago. must admit that i skipped alot to get to the end to see what came of it. the little pesonality twist was quite a sidestep. but hey ho. I have recently been looking at all things beginner friendly and found that the standard Apprentice RTF has optional equipment, namely LAS, where the model senses the distance to the ground on approach and makes the final adjustments, if i have read it right. the sensor was about £40. Would this have helped with the original question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 GPS and safe receivers have come along way, I’ve only been at it 20 years!. I’m of the impression that if they’re not set correctly then it could end up in a pile of bits, the plane thinking it’s still 2 ft above the runway when it’s not. I my view landing should be done the old fashion way, with your sticks and a stabilisation if needed/ fitted, not height gps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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