Gatwick drone incident

[Erfolg]

Patmac. FF models are no more autonomous than the game of "pooh sticks". As we all know, the current usage is a device is capable of independent control to achieve a specified task.

As so easily predicted a government opposition member has made the usual statements with regard to government failings and demanded greater controls on drones.

Plus a spoke person for the Pilot Union has been suggesting that 400 foot legal limit is to high.

Now the issue for many of us what will be the impact with respect to us. The CAA and its officials, however understanding they are with respect to our hobby, will have to respond to governmental pressures and concerns. From their perspective, there are no benefits from fighting our corner, taking into account if another incident were to happen, would it be career limiting to them.

[Paul C.]

I am sure I know this chap from somewhere

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

There are no benefits to careers or the C.A.A. in agreeing to something that won't stop further incidents either, place a 50ftt limit, it still will not stop it. there is a NO fly limit at airports already.

It's brought it to the stage where money and manpower needs using.

[Paul C.]

We should make an example of the perpetrators !!!!!! Sorry it must be the time of year

[Pete B]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 22/12/2018 10:58:30:

We're assuming with no evidence that the people arrested are guilty based simply on the fact they've been apprehended. They may be innocent and, if they are, the actual perpetrators will go free. With the best of intentions that sometimes happens - the Birmingham Six for example. We must not let the need for resolution override the more important need for justice.

Certainly the punishment, if they are found to be guilty, needs to be exemplary but lets not get carried away by emotion wen what's needed is proper judgement.

Geoff

I think we should give the investigating authorities some credit in their ability to do the job thoroughly and professionally. A lot of resources have been put into pursuing this and they will be very careful to ensure that their evidence is gathered effectively, comprehensively and lawfully. We don't know whether they have sufficient to charge now - they may need to bail the suspects before all information is gathered, so we may have to be patient.

They won't charge the suspects either, until their evidence has been scrutinised by the CPS and charges approved.

If they are convicted, it's in the lap of the gods as to what happens to them....

Pete

[Don Fry]

Posted by john stones 1 on 22/12/2018 11:29:31:

There are no benefits to careers or the C.A.A. in agreeing to something that won't stop further incidents either, place a 50ftt limit, it still will not stop it. there is a NO fly limit at airports already.

It's brought it to the stage where money and manpower needs using.

I'm very sorry to disagree with you John. At the time of Dunblane, I was the Secretary of Torfaen Rifle Club. I saw what polititions can do once they get into, "time to do something NOW, mode". Once they get into that mode, we, as the BMFA will find, found all you can do is do is catch-up to sort the worst excesses of the legislation. Not the daft, that gets through, not the stupid, that gets through. You get to stop the bizarre. Only.

Balfa is fairly strident in into shouts. From their point of view, they might not want, but would not be sorry if drones disappeared. Full stop. If we disappear, collateral damage. Or we end up with a perpetual head wind to survive.

[Erfolg]

John, I can see where in principle where you are coming from. In reality the issue becomes one of blocking as many avenues of potential that are possible as far a the Government and CAA are concerned.

At present it would be speculation as to the direction, limitations or requirements that the CAA will consider or impose. What is certain, there will be a response by them. As a minimum, pointing to a list of actions taken, it is the equivalent of a text book down the back of the pants when summoned to the principals office.

I am convinced that each area of our activities will need to be fought on an individual basis, highlighting the exemplary record of each area. A blanket approach to all sections, could well lead to any area which has been trouble some being the cause of blanket restrictions. IMO it is much better that those whose track record is unacceptable, being constrained, earning relaxations on restrictions as the group can show significant improvement.

Have no doubt, the opposition parties in the House of Commons, will be demanding what has the Government done to prevent a reoccurrence. They are not at all bothered in reality about the situation, the only thing that they want to say, is typically, "the Government dithers whilst......." , the "Government is incompetent............". " the Government needs to move over for those who can govern......." in such an atmosphere, action will be taken, to counter the accusations.

[Daithi O Buitigh]

The big problem is 'knee-jerk legislation'. Back in the day, during the 'pit bull' saga, the Irish government decided to copy the Brit laws but managed to end up banning ownership of Bull Mastiffs, ALL Bull Terriers and English Bulldogs.

Politicians don't seem to be able to actually THINK first

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 22/12/2018 12:05:08:

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 22/12/2018 10:58:30:

We're assuming with no evidence that the people arrested are guilty based simply on the fact they've been apprehended. They may be innocent and, if they are, the actual perpetrators will go free. With the best of intentions that sometimes happens - the Birmingham Six for example. We must not let the need for resolution override the more important need for justice.

Certainly the punishment, if they are found to be guilty, needs to be exemplary but lets not get carried away by emotion wen what's needed is proper judgement.

Geoff

I think we should give the investigating authorities some credit in their ability to do the job thoroughly and professionally. A lot of resources have been put into pursuing this and they will be very careful to ensure that their evidence is gathered effectively, comprehensively and lawfully. We don't know whether they have sufficient to charge now - they may need to bail the suspects before all information is gathered, so we may have to be patient.

They won't charge the suspects either, until their evidence has been scrutinised by the CPS and charges approved.

If they are convicted, it's in the lap of the gods as to what happens to them....

Pete

Hopefully Pete, if they've got the right ones, if convicted, looking to be heavy sentences dished out, it's not all bad no one got hurt. Give over with the doom n gloom folks, it won't help or change anything.

[leccyflyer]

What we, as aeromodellers, need to remember is that whilst we see clear blue water between our activities and those of the drone flyers, the general public doesn't really see that - they lump us all in the same basket and drones have suddenly become even more unpopular than they already were. Interfere with the liberty of the British public, take away their rights, increase their taxes, destroy their democracy and you;ll be met with a shrug, but interfere with their holidays and that;s a different matter entirely.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Don Fry on 22/12/2018 12:16:28:

Posted by john stones 1 on 22/12/2018 11:29:31:

There are no benefits to careers or the C.A.A. in agreeing to something that won't stop further incidents either, place a 50ftt limit, it still will not stop it. there is a NO fly limit at airports already.

It's brought it to the stage where money and manpower needs using.

I'm very sorry to disagree with you John. At the time of Dunblane, I was the Secretary of Torfaen Rifle Club. I saw what polititions can do once they get into, "time to do something NOW, mode". Once they get into that mode, we, as the BMFA will find, found all you can do is do is catch-up to sort the worst excesses of the legislation. Not the daft, that gets through, not the stupid, that gets through. You get to stop the bizarre. Only.

Balfa is fairly strident in into shouts. From their point of view, they might not want, but would not be sorry if drones disappeared. Full stop. If we disappear, collateral damage. Or we end up with a perpetual head wind to survive.

Yep, I see that Don, ain't gonna change things me whittling, is it, put my faith in the BMFA and keep calm n carry on.

[cymaz]

To me, it seems a shame none of the media I saw or heard didn’t contact or interview anyone at Chacksfield house..They would have put the media right on a few things and shown that model flying is done by a responsible and law abiding bunch of individuals.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Don Fry]

John, I hate to disappoint, but these are 5 year sentences, maximum. Now the judge will have guidelines, already written. Can sentence on those guidelines, and I suspect those quidlines do not emphasise disruption, and this did not involve ACTUAL damage or injury.

Have a look at what's handed down for a disqualified driver mowing down some innocent on the road, and then compare and contrast.

[leccyflyer]

Posted by cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:30:13:

To me, it seems a shame none of the media I saw or heard didn’t contact or interview anyone at Chacksfield house..They would have put the media right on a few things and shown that model flying is done by a responsible and law abiding bunch of individuals.

I haven't seen any explicit mention of model flying in the media in connection with this incident, so it;s difficult to see in what manner the BMFA could have been involved with something which really shouldn't be anything to do with model flying. How would such a conversation/report have been framed?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jonathan M]

A technical solution will (eventually) be found to prevent this sort of danger/nuisance in the future.

The proper use of law and justice are crucial, both to the innocent and to prevent society degenerating into barbarism.

The only thing left that interests me right now is (assuming the two suspects arrested are indeed the perpetrators) what was their motive.

Edited By Jonathan M on 22/12/2018 12:50:41

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[cymaz]

Posted by leccyflyer on 22/12/2018 12:39:20:

Posted by cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:30:13:

To me, it seems a shame none of the media I saw or heard didn’t contact or interview anyone at Chacksfield house..They would have put the media right on a few things and shown that model flying is done by a responsible and law abiding bunch of individuals.

I haven't seen any explicit mention of model flying in the media in connection with this incident, so it;s difficult to see in what manner the BMFA could have been involved with something which really shouldn't be anything to do with model flying. How would such a conversation/report have been framed?

If Joe public sees anything small buzzing around in the sky they might not care if it’s scale, sport or a multirotor....it’s just an annoying drone that shuts down airports. It’s people’s perceptions and prejudices of model flying I worry about, they won’t care what it is......just ban it.

Edited By cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:49:49

[Jonathan M]

Posted by cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:44:39:

If Joe public sees anything small buzzing around in the sky they might not care if it’s scale, sport or a multirotor....it’s just an annoying drone that shuts down airports.

That's right. About four years ago I was flying a small electric Piper Cub in a field when I middle-aged woman walking her dog asked me "Is that a drone?"

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[cymaz]

Posted by supertigrefan on 22/12/2018 12:50:50:

Posted by Jonathan M on 22/12/2018 12:49:49:

Posted by cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:44:39:

If Joe public sees anything small buzzing around in the sky they might not care if it’s scale, sport or a multirotor....it’s just an annoying drone that shuts down airports.

That's right. About four years ago I was flying a small electric Piper Cub in a field when I middle-aged woman walking her dog asked me "Is that a drone?"

Did you take the opportunity to explain the difference?

I’ve found, unless they’re interested, people start to glaze over 2 seconds after you begin to explain. Like me with the offside rule.

[leccyflyer]

Posted by cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:44:39:

If Joe public sees anything small buzzing around in the sky they might not care if it’s scale, sport or a multirotor....it’s just an annoying drone that shuts down airports. It’s people’s perceptions and prejudices of model flying I worry about, they won’t care what it is......just ban it.

Edited By cymaz on 22/12/2018 12:49:49

That's the point that I made earlier - the public isn;t likely to make that distinction, so it's difficult to see how the BMFA could take the initiative and frame the conversation to make that distinction, unless the expression of lumping us all together had been explicitly made. How could they become in the public discussion of the incident?