CAA registration consulation

[Levanter]

Posted by trebor on 03/05/2019 07:17:58:

If Amazon drones want to buy my back garden airspace they can but if one of those drones fly into it, it won't be flying out in one piece.

Public forum Trebor. You don't own the airspace in your garden so you can't sell it. If you interfere with the Amazon drone and damage it, that would likely be a criminal act. I imagine Amazon could wield some considerable legal clout.

You might get some personal satisfaction but in my view it is not a mature statement and certainly not helpful to improving the outcome which is all we can do.

Levanter

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[trebor]

Posted by Levanter on 03/05/2019 08:13:26:

Posted by trebor on 03/05/2019 07:17:58:

If Amazon drones want to buy my back garden airspace they can but if one of those drones fly into it, it won't be flying out in one piece.

Public forum Trebor. You don't own the airspace in your garden so you can't sell it. If you interfere with the Amazon drone and damage it, that would likely be a criminal act. I imagine Amazon could wield some considerable legal clout.

You might get some personal satisfaction but in my view it is not a mature statement and certainly not helpful to improving the outcome which is all we can do.

Levanter

Did I say I owned the airspace Did I say I was going to damage it ? I'd like to see one fly by my garden without it getting itself tangled in tensioned lines holding Shade Sails up plus there is always the pond for it to finish off in.

[stu knowles]

All this talk of refusing to pay doesn't really help anything, nor does starting more petitions. Everyone needs to get behind the BMFA / LMA / SAA / FPVUK (pick your own) and get the proposal, in its present form kicked into touch.

It is already a fact that throughout Europe all model flyers will have to be on a register, that much we have to accept but how that it done is the crux. The CAA had led our representatives to believe that membership of a recognised organisation could be accepted as forming the Registration at little cost to the individual and on this thy have renaged and stabbed everyone in the back.

Not taking registration from under 18's is just placing a major obstacle into the path of future children taking up aeromodelling in any form which is bad for the future of aeromodelling and quite frankly stupid in terms of discouraging future engineers and technology.

Time to stop posturing and get behind those who represent our future. For those who think that we don't need the BMFA etc time to wake up

**LINK**

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by GONZO on 02/05/2019 21:49:36:

Posted by Nigel Heather on 02/05/2019 20:40:49:

Yes indeed, I have already suggested that. I can easily imagine a situation where pressure is put on the BMFA and its registered clubs to make proof of CAA registration a pre-requisite of memberships.

Cheers,

Nigel

In my club many members fly control line and free flight(sub 250gm) so no need to register if this is all you fly.

 

 

Okay just add “if required” to the end of my sentence.

I can still envisage the BMFA and registered clubs being “encouraged” to ensure members confirm that they are registered with the CAA if required.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

Edited By Nigel Heather on 03/05/2019 09:18:57

Edited By Nigel Heather on 03/05/2019 09:19:12

[Glyn44]

Who is going to police this? Can’t see the boys in blue taking an interest. They won’t even rock up here if your burgled, had your vehicle nicked/damaged etc.

[Bob Cotsford]

Why would free-flight or control-line models not be considered UAV's? There is nothing in 'unmanned aerial vehicle' that states that the model is untethered and controled by means of radio transmissions, just that it's not manned and it flies. As for policing, I would imagine that models would only come under scrutiny if there were cause, either a local infringement of the ANO or a complaining neighbour/passer-by.

[trebor]

Very true, my stepdaughter had her car soft top cut to steal things and they never even came out to look at it or even take finger prints

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[GONZO]

Bob C, Free flight UNDER 250gm and control line are outside of and have been granted exemption from registration. That's my understanding. Obviously the 250gm lower weight is well publicised but I'm sure there was an exemption granted for control line.

[Dickw]

There is an exemption for flying control line models in a FRZ, but that doesn't mention exemption from registration.

I am not aware of any exemption from registration for CL flyers, who are refferred to as "remote pilots" in the above doc.

Dick

Edited By Dickw on 03/05/2019 11:08:18

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by stu knowles on 03/05/2019 08:39:47:

All this talk of refusing to pay doesn't really help anything, nor does starting more petitions. Everyone needs to get behind the BMFA / LMA / SAA / FPVUK (pick your own) and get the proposal, in its present form kicked into touch.

It is already a fact that throughout Europe all model flyers will have to be on a register, that much we have to accept but how that it done is the crux. The CAA had led our representatives to believe that membership of a recognised organisation could be accepted as forming the Registration at little cost to the individual and on this thy have renaged and stabbed everyone in the back.

Not taking registration from under 18's is just placing a major obstacle into the path of future children taking up aeromodelling in any form which is bad for the future of aeromodelling and quite frankly stupid in terms of discouraging future engineers and technology.

Time to stop posturing and get behind those who represent our future. For those who think that we don't need the BMFA etc time to wake up

**LINK**

Agreed.

[GONZO]

Dickw, agreed. I believe there was an exemption way back that is now non existent. Having checked further the fight for exemption of CL is still ongoing. The contention is that CL is tethered flight.

Barton MFC control line forum

Edited By GONZO on 03/05/2019 11:30:19

[Cuban8]

Posted by trebor on 03/05/2019 07:17:58:

If Amazon drones want to buy my back garden airspace they can but if one of those drones fly into it, it won't be flying out in one piece.

Oh no! not the drone delivery argument again! Never gonna happen lads, still waiting ............and yes, I did see the kidney drone report. Pleased that the lady is doing OK, but a silly and pointless publicity stunt really - an Amazon speciality.

Edited By Cuban8 on 03/05/2019 12:31:35

[Nigel R]

Automated drone deliveries? A problem of an almost unsolvable nature. Not worth it. Easier and cheaper to pay piddling amounts to migrant delivery drivers.

Piloted drops of vital supplies, possible, and possible now, clearly.

I expect we will see stuff like surveillance be the mainstay of drone work. It is easier to automate. Maybe things like police using a network of infra red cameras at night time, or that sort of thing. Crop spraying. Stuff with repetitive flight paths. Etc.

But I think the government has vastly overestimated the amount of potential use that u space will get. As usual with the government and technology, it is a balls up, with someone (us) getting a shafting.

[GONZO]

Like you Cuban8 I think it's all tosh and nonsense when it comes to individual delivery. Maybe inter hub for high value rapid response items. So, what's it all about? Autonomous surveillance drones for the government?? Enhanced mind control via the 5G network??? I'm OK sitting here with me little tin foil hat on in my copper mesh lined room!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[trebor]

Can you imagine Amazon delivery drones run the same way they run the delivery drivers into the ground. They will be falling out of the sky due to poor maintenance and worn out parts because of the keep it cheap attitude.

[MattyB]

Posted by Cuban8 on 03/05/2019 12:30:22:

Posted by trebor on 03/05/2019 07:17:58:

If Amazon drones want to buy my back garden airspace they can but if one of those drones fly into it, it won't be flying out in one piece.

Oh no! not the drone delivery argument again! Never gonna happen lads, still waiting ............and yes, I did see the kidney drone report. Pleased that the lady is doing OK, but a silly and pointless publicity stunt really - an Amazon speciality.

Posted by GONZO on 03/05/2019 12:50:49:

Like you Cuban8 I think it's all tosh and nonsense when it comes to individual delivery. Maybe inter hub for high value rapid response items. So, what's it all about? Autonomous surveillance drones for the government?? Enhanced mind control via the 5G network??? I'm OK sitting here with me little tin foil hat on in my copper mesh lined room!

Guys, you can dismiss widespread commercial use all you want but your view is ultimately irrelevent. If the government (and let us be clear , it is them pushing this, not the CAA) thinks there are jobs, economic growth and tax revenues (direct or indirect) in encouraging the commercial drone industry in the UK they will do it. That includes clearing out recreational users from the airspace below 1000ft using mechanisms like registration that increase in costs steadily over time.

Is the tech ready now for safe, medium/long range autonomous delivery? No, and it might still be 10 years away; who knows. Is every use case/location going to be possible for BVLOS autonomous operations? Of course not. What is clear is that the big companies are investing a lot of money into feasibility studies and lobbying governments to prepare the road. These companies are far more influential than ourselves and our national bodies; by comparison we are just low value collateral damage.

Since we are so small in number government are hoping to wave the "safety of manned aviation" banner and put these changes in place without too much dissent from the public. Only time will tell if that proves the case, but our only real hope in the long term is to respnd to the consulation and write letters to anyone who may listen in government to try and get them to realise such high fees are grossly unfair for such a simple service (there is no point fighting registration itself, that boat sailed in 2018).

PS - If you still think this is a conspiracy theory please read the (relatively short for an EU doc!) SESAR U-Space blueprint from all the way back in 2017; the intentions are all laid out clearly in a tasteful EU colour scheme...  

Edited By MattyB on 03/05/2019 13:47:28

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[MattyB]

Posted by Steve J on 03/05/2019 13:50:23:

Posted by MattyB on 03/05/2019 13:37:24:

there is no point fighting registration itself, that boat sailed in 2018

I would say that it sailed with the Riga Declaration back in 2015 .

I am not quite as pessimistic as you, but agree with most of your post. The only thing that we can do at the moment is to get the government to legislate a u-space funding model in the long awaited Drone Bill that means that recreational SUA operators/remote pilots only pay a nominal fee (e.g. £5 / 3 years).

Steve

Agreed, though based on the way this has been done (with no direct engagement of our national bodies to shape the solution) I find it hard to be optimisitc that such a pragmatic soluiton will be arrived at.

PS - Another good source of information on the government's long term goals can be found in their 2017 consultation "Unlocking the UK's High Tech Economy: Consultation on the Safe Use of Drones in the UK" - there was lots about the drive to deliver economc benefits from drones in that consultation.

Edited By MattyB on 03/05/2019 14:30:40

[Martin Dilly 1]

I do hope that all the people who have made 521 posts on this topic have already taken the time to a) respond to the drone consultation **LINK**b) written to their MP, c) written to the Minister for Aviation [email protected], and, d) written to the CAA [email protected] . The link here (UK Model Flyers - Call to action) covers the points to make.

That’s a lot more important than preaching to the more or less converted on this forum.

I do hope that all the people who have made 521 posts on this topic have already taken the time to a) respond to the drone consultation **LINK**

b) written to their MP, c) written to the Minister for Aviation [email protected], and, d) written to the CAA [email protected] . The link here (UK Model Flyers - Call to action) covers the points to make.

That’s a lot more important than preaching to the more or less converted on this forum.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[MattyB]

Posted by Martin Dilly 1 on 03/05/2019 14:50:52:

I do hope that all the people who have made 521 posts on this topic have already taken the time to a) respond to the drone consultation **LINK**b) written to their MP, c) written to the Minister for Aviation [email protected], and, d) written to the CAA [email protected] . The link here (UK Model Flyers - Call to action) covers the points to make.

That’s a lot more important than preaching to the more or less converted on this forum.

We are all well aware of what the BMFA has asked it's members to do, Martin, but it is the choice of every individual whether they choose to do so. Pithy comments suggesting posters here should not be engaging on this forum until they have written their letters are unlikely to endear those deciding whether they feel it is worth their effort to respond.

Edited By MattyB on 03/05/2019 16:41:57