Peter Christy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Chris-J: The CAA is only concerned with flying things! Steve J: Typical political non-reply. This is Grayling at work again, trying to make the CAA carry the can for his inept handling of the situation, just as he did with the railway companies and the timetable changes. Hopefully this one will blow up in his face as well! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 One does wonder whether this is equitable with the stance regarding cyclists. They are not required to pay for cyclepaths and cycle parking areas nor are they required to take tests or register despite the number of accidents involving cyclists and the proven use of cycles to carry out crimes. No doubt there are plenty of other activities that could equally be used as a comparison. Just saying... Edited By Bob Cotsford on 05/06/2019 09:04:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Yeah, but cyclists aren't likely to get in the way of Amazon's drones! The CAA questionnaire makes it quite clear that this is nothing to do with safety. -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 As far as I am aware no one has ever been killed by a drone(multi rotor). But, each year a small number of people are killed in the UK BY cyclists. Its not just the cyclists getting killed. Interesting couple of videos explaining the 'devil in the detail' of the Canadian regs. SUB 250g ABOVE 250g Keeping flight logs and maintenance logs with itemised copies of instructions/part numbers etc for each entry. No alcohol whatsoever for at least 12 hours before flying. $1000 FINES FOR EACH AND EVERY INFRINGMENT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Pete, I know its not about safety, that was just to garner public support. I also don't believe its about Amazon delivering parcels. There may be a bit of that but I believe there is some other 'hidden' agenda at work here. Not sure what but just a few moments thought about large scale deliveries by drone makes you realise that its a non starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Empire building and creating a multi million pound fiefdom for ambitious civil servants. So barmy, it can't be anything else, can it? What's galling is that it's all based on discredited data that no one seems be able to convince the powers that are obsessed with registration, that the result will ultimately be a fiasco. Edited By Cuban8 on 05/06/2019 10:19:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Still not reply from the aviation minister. Letter #3 now sent (as well as a complaint raised through Dft). Letter #3 also sent to my MP & the CAA, who still have not given a satisfactory reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 ... Edited By Nigel R on 05/06/2019 11:28:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Cuban8, if you are correct in your assumption don't you find it strange that this draconian control has occurred at about the same time in all Western developed nations and virtually nowhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by GONZO on 05/06/2019 11:43:38: Cuban8, if you are correct in your assumption don't you find it strange that this draconian control has occurred at about the same time in all Western developed nations and virtually nowhere else? The bureaucratic mind set is clearly an international phenomenon....have you seen the ludicrous regs that apply to Canadians that are not members of a club? Bruce Simpson video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 pages and still open, you're doing well lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 Might be - although I've only skimmed the site, the first document which aims at providing recommendations concerning uniform personnel licensing and competencies in the operation of RPAS states: Out of scope of this JARUS-FCL Recommendation are: 3.2 i.Model aircraft exclusively used for air display, recreational, sport or competition activity; ii.Toy aircraft (suited to be used by a child of less than 14 years) falling under the definition of aircraft; ...so if our government are basing their plans on the JARUS recommendations, they don't seem to have read (or followed) this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by GONZO on 05/06/2019 09:38:14: Pete, I know its not about safety, that was just to garner public support. I also don't believe its about Amazon delivering parcels. There may be a bit of that but I believe there is some other 'hidden' agenda at work here. Not sure what but just a few moments thought about large scale deliveries by drone makes you realise that its a non starter. You and I know that, Gonzo, but remember who the minister of transport is here! Time and time again he has shown staggering incompetence, ignoring expert advice in favour of his own dogmatic views. I tend to be a cock-up theorist rather than a conspiracy theorist simply because I don't believe most politicians are actually clever enough to carry out a conspiracy! If they were that clever, they wouldn't be in politics! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Agreed. A conspiracy is difficult to pull off successfully. A cock-up, on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Personally, I don't see anything wrong or sinister about a registration scheme. It's not as if the UK has decided to do this in isolation, the US, France, Ireland and I'm sure other countries already have similar schemes. It is understandable that the drone market has driven this need - before them, the hobby was mostly self regulated with pilots being members of associations and operating from affiliated clubs. Drones have introduced a much more individual, fly where and when you want attitude. Add to that being able to pick drones up cheaply from high street shops and flying at remote distances using FPV and I seen why there is a concern. What I do have issue with though, is that the DfT can go out and buy an over-priced system and expect the few honest people that will register to pay for it. £16.50 is too much, it is not a lot but it is too much when compared with what other countries have done. Worse is the very real fear that the price will rise significantly in subsequent years when the DfT realise that they have seriously over-estimated the number of registrants and therefore, got their business model totally wrong. Had they rolled this out with a simple solution, charging £5 per year then I doubt there would have been much fuss. Cheers, Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Why is it you believe it a cock up ? Moneys going into pockets, it's what they do, just your/our pockets this time, interesting that other Countries haven't added a fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 In this months (May) AAIB accident report includes 4 reports of crashes with UAS (the AAIB call them Unmanned Aerial Systems rather than UAVs). These are commercial UAV so are in the 5 kg class and presumably are required to report accidents as part of their operators licence. Of the 4 crash reports one was an impact with a tree branch, one pilot error, one an ESC failure and one a structural failure. I don't know how big the population of commercial UAVs is in the UK but I wonder if it is the number of reports that is encouraging the DfT to take a hard line with the hobby side of the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Not good news: BMFA report on meeting with Baroness Vere -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 No surprise really - the DfT have signed up to an over-priced system and need someone to pay for it. I don’t disagree with the registration system, it is the £16.50 fee and more worryingly, how much they will have to hike it when they realise they have their numbers wrong. It should be £5. And after November when climate change protesters close Heathrow with a single drone, the DfT and CAA will be hauled over the coals to explain why their registration system made no difference. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 05/06/2019 18:56:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by J D 8 on 31/05/2019 09:40:17: I have filled my complaint form to the DoT regarding the standardised return that answered none of my questions. KEEP the pressure on. Let them known we are not happy bunnies with this hairbrained scheme. Can you tell me to what address at DoT you sent that complaint? Happy to do the same. Hairbrained isn't in it. I am also a glider pilot and an aircraft owner. The BGA and the LAA do a fine job of providing suitable oversight, apply standards and technical help etc,, with the approval of the CAA. Why can the BMFA not do likewise? This can only be about the DfT trying to get its database folly paid for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Someone has started a petition about this: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/259863 May not do any good, but if it reaches 10,000 they are obliged to respond. We ought to be able to reach that easily. -- Pete edited to correct link Edited By Peter Christy on 05/06/2019 19:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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