john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 We are off again then, I get depressed reading this (well stop then ) people like Ken and others have put years into clubs, helped hundreds enjoy the hobby. This is just more of the same. Why is it you never discuss solutions and only focus on the negative, some don't have internet ? well organise and help them, some don't do tests ? well talk to em, show them how easy it will be to pass it. Stop being so miserable and writing our obituary every other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Gonzo, there's no way that my club is insisting on dumping all this nonsense on our members voluntarily, the mood within the membership is vehemently against how we are being treated, but if it comes to it, we will have very little choice but to comply and make the best of it. As individuals, realistically, we have very little in the way of leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Quite John, there are no insurmountable obstacles here. Lots of FUD though. It's not beyond realms of possibility to do a club meeting dedicated to getting everyone through the pilot "test" or helping to register for any internet refuseniks. Edited By Nigel R on 30/05/2019 11:13:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Posted by Nigel R on 30/05/2019 11:11:28: Quite John, there are no insurmountable obstacles here. Lots of FUD though. Trouble is gents, that a rotten and unjust piece of legislation is just that, and many of us fear what might be cooked up next. How about a requirement to have your flying field marked out in some way similar to full size ones? Or a giant white cross painted from corner to corner to warn "here be model aircraft" Sorry mustn't give them ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I don't disagree that it's rubbish from our point of view. However fear of what's next is just that, fear. As the saying goes, nothing is certain except birth, death, and taxes. Edited By Nigel R on 30/05/2019 11:22:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Posted by Cuban8 on 30/05/2019 11:16:38: Posted by Nigel R on 30/05/2019 11:11:28: Quite John, there are no insurmountable obstacles here. Lots of FUD though. Trouble is gents, that a rotten and unjust piece of legislation is just that, and many of us fear what might be cooked up next. How about a requirement to have your flying field marked out in some way similar to full size ones? Or a giant white cross painted from corner to corner to warn "here be model aircraft" Sorry mustn't give them ideas And others agree it stinks, so what do we do ? Help others through it and carry on the hobby ? Feel sorry for ourselves and quit ? Easy choice for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Whitehead 1 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Posted by john stones 1 on 30/05/2019 11:27:24: And others agree it stinks, so what do we do ? Help others through it and carry on the hobby ? Feel sorry for ourselves and quit ? Easy choice for me. Well said John. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Latest from the BMFA CEO at **LINK** Representatives of the UK Model Flying Associations met with the CAA yesterday afternoon (29th May 2019). The meeting was constructive, but without any real breakthrough to report at this stage. The CAA were only able to discuss potential options within the restrictive policy framework dictated by the DfT. One such option is the possibility of the Associations registering as Operators, which would save members paying the £16.50 registration fee, but all members flying any model over 250g would still be required to take a free CAA theory test every 3 years. There is however further exploratory work to do on this option before it could be confirmed as a viable way forward and it would still be far from satisfactory. Model Flying is now within the CAA’s Small Unmanned Aircraft Unit rather than their General Aviation Unit and there was an undertaking to meet on a quarterly basis, rather than on the current annual basis. The Associations welcome this development, especially at the present time. There remains a great deal of detail to resolve before the 2018 ANO changes come into effect at the end of November this year and this issue is compounded by the six months lost due to the DfT/CAA ‘stone walling’ us since November 2018. It is regrettable that it has taken the direct action of our members to force the resumption of meaningful dialogue. We would like to thank all those members who have supported our campaign so far, the CAA has received approximately 6000 responses from model association members. If you have not yet responded to the consultation, please do so before it closes next week. Full details of the consultation and how to respond can be found here: **LINK** A considerable number of members have expressed their dissatisfaction at the ‘standard’ response they have received from the CAA which in many cases does little or nothing to address their specific concerns or indicate that they have even been read. We would encourage any member dissatisfied with the response they have received to raise a formal complaint through the CAA’s complaints process (rather than as a personal communication to the CEO), details of which you can find here:**LINK**. Similarly, a significant number of members have also expressed their dissatisfaction with the ‘standard’ response they have received from the DfT and in this instance we would encourage members to re-submit their concerns with a complaint that they have not been adequately addressed. Details of how to submit a complaint to the DfT can be found here**LINK**. We will be meeting with the Minister next week, but for now our 'Call to Action' remains very much in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Many thanks Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Posted by Kim Taylor on 30/05/2019 11:00:28: Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 30/05/2019 10:24:01: What makes up "all the hassle" that's about to be thrust upon us that will make it so unpalatable to fly a model plane? Speaking for myself, it's not the 'hassle' of paying a fee (tax) and passing some tick box test or other. But it is the principle of being held to ransom by the hang 'em high brigade within government, fuelled by the press and organisations such as BALPA who see drones blackening the skies. Do we need to stop the rogue element who operate irresponsibly, dangerously or with malicious intent? Yes, absolutely. Will the proposed register / fee / test do ANYTHING to address the above? Absolutely not!! It is simply the common injustice of it that I object to, and I suspect that is the position of many of us. Kim Completely agree, but would also add that the online test could actually do more harm than good - i.e. the rouge brigade thinking they are safe to fly just because they have passed a multi-guess test..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Hi Andy, Thanks for your post (and your efforts behind the scenes). I've been most unhappy with my replies. Complaints forms here we come..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Nice one Andy. (edit: not forgetting the rest of the BMFA crew on this issue) Edited By Nigel R on 30/05/2019 13:18:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Plaudits should go to the BMFA CEO who is leading the fight and doing atremendous amount of work on this both in Europe and the UK Plenty of responses needed but also positivity when talking about this with your mates. The doom and gloom and talk of not going through all the extra hassle will simply put people off when we should all still be encouraging people to take up are rather wonderful sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Just had the standardised response from the DoT .Will be using Andy's link to complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 The thread has moved on since my post, but in reply, perhaps I was harsh, but the answers came......... we can all pull together to help the People who don't care for or don't think they need tests. The test will be a piece of wee wee anyway, and we will all sail thru it, no worries. I can take my laptop to the field if necessary for people who have no computer. Like I said......BMFA are doing a grand Job.... lets support them. D.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 The test may be easy now but 3 years from now who knows. Along with the registration fee it is just another way of tightening the requirements to fly. IMO this is bound to happen as commercial activity and auto ATC of Uspace grows. You can take the test and pay the fee but it will only be a holding action. We will, in the main, be squeezed out as they want possibly sooner rather than latter. Edited By GONZO on 30/05/2019 16:51:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Bernard Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 30/05/2019 10:24:01: What makes up "all the hassle" that's about to be thrust upon us that will make it so unpalatable to fly a model plane? For me it's not the cost or hassle that's the problem - it is the principle and blatant 'mis-selling' of this as a solution. Firstly the solution is not fit for purpose... We are told the reason it is being done is to be able to police the 'drone menace' but we all know that the people who are likely to misuse drones will either know nothing of the legislation, or else simply not care. If Joe Public sees a quad in Currys or Red X that they fancy and buy it, are they really going to rush home and Google 'drone laws' before nipping into the local park to fly it? If I am going to take video of planes at Heathrow, or smuggle phones into the local nick, I am hardly going to register and stick a nice big number on my quad! Secondly the figures used for justifying the costs are so ridiculous both in expected numbers of registrations and in cost for what at first glance would seem to be a simple web database application. Sure, like most of us, I will pay and do the test - but I will do it with a bad feeling of having been conned into it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 but surely...................shops will be instructed to ask for and see proof of said registration......No reg No quad.... D.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 The prime purpose of this legislation is to provide a U Space facility for commercial interests. Circles, going around, we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuphedd Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Just reading an E flite Sukhoi instruction manual ! I know its a rare thing to do but I noticed two points of American "law" which shows where they are , I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 So.......unless sanity prevails and 'the system' does go live, what then happens when after a year or two, drones are still being flown illegally, YouTube remains awash with (UK) video of the usual stunts, and pilots are still reporting drone near misses etc etc etc..................oh, and by the way aeromodellers carry on flying as we have with no effect on anyone and anything?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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