2 or 3 questions please, need some wise advice

[911hillclimber]

Thank you David, that was my understanding.

Ive set the Tx Rex to have aileron on side to side on both sticks, but plug the rudder servo into channel 2 on the Rex and this gives me throttle only on left stick and Rudd.elev on the right.

phew, that's just got to be it.

Just need another servo now.

[kc]

You will confuse your instructor if you present him with a model that is in any way unusual. So if you couple ailerons and rudder ( ie have them work on both sticks as you stated) then he might not like that. Leave him to couple them if he thinks it is worthwhile. Or at least tell him from the outset.

Presenting instructors with controls that are coupled or have some hidden mixing or expo has caused crashes in the past. Therefore they just hate finding some unforeseen change to basic Tx setup!

[David Davis]

Good! We've established that you are going to set up your radio as a Mode 2 pilot. I would guess that 99% of r/c pilots are either Mode 1 or Mode 2 and perhaps 60% of them are Mode 2 if my former membership of Shropshire Model Flying Club is anything to go by. There is a club at Sleap Aerodrome in North Shropshire where several of them apparently fly or flew some most unusual mode and there is another expat Englishman in the Pays de la Loire who has the primary controls on the left stick on the grounds that he is left handed. Mind you he is finding learing to fly very difficult and he has crashed a lot of models in the process.

It is possible for a Mode 2 instructor to train a Mode 1 novice and vice versa. I do it all the time with my Mode 1 French trainees here in Central France, but that is only after they've had a few flights with the club's other instructor, the club president, who like most Frenchmen, is a Mode 1 pilot. The difficulty is that if I am flying with a Mode 1 trainee and he keeps making a horlicks of things I have to explain verbally (in French!) what he is doing wrong.

I am also teaching a Mode 2 trainee, another Englishman. With him things are much simpler because I can take back control and demostrate what he should be on my own transmitter. So all things considered it would be better if you found yourself a Mode 2 instructor. That said, if you join a club where Mode 1 is the norm, any experienced member will be able to alter your transmitter to Mode 1 for you.

Generally speaking we are a helpful bunch of blokes and I feel sure that you will also find somebody who will help you to cover your model too. Which covering material will you be using?

Finally many clubs have their own trainers so that visitors can have a go at flying without buying their own equipment first. I used to fly with the Shropshire Model Flying Club at Forton Aerodrome near Montford Bridge. The club had two electric trainers and an i/c one, two Mode 1 transmitters and two Mode 2 transmitters so that everybody could be accomodated.

[911hillclimber]

All sounds good. Despite this massive thread (sorry) which shows my lack of aptitude I do like to sort things out myself, but right from the outset I knew I would need some guidance, and such guidance has been superb.

I think you all for your patience, bet some have been amused by my efforts!

4-Max have been in touch asking me to do a few simple tests, just done that and emailed George.

Just caught Penn Models (local shop) and now have one of those cheap blue servo testers.

Been grafting at our Club's race track today, but will test both servos tomorrow.

I hope the Tx set-up will be good.

Left stick throttle, nothing left to right.

Right stick elevator/rudder.

Sounds simple to me...it needs to be!

Way back in the 60's a rich mate of mine built a Super 60 with a huge Merco and a single channel McGregor radio set and crystal, or similar radio. Gold painted Tx case iirc.

This radio system was just reaching the shops, fabulously simple. Can't remember if it had throttle control and rudder only.

However, he still has it.....and is watching me carefully. Might get him to the field this year if we are allowed to get together anywhere at the moment.

[Simon Chaddock]

911hillclimber

Rather than change the set up of the tx it would be easier to leave the tx in normal Mode 2 (throttle/rudder on LH stick, aileron/elevator on RH) and then simply plug the rudder servo into the unused aileron port on the rx. This will transfer the left/right on the elevator stick to the rudder. Left/right on the throttle stick will then do nothing.

Remember the rx just takes the tx signals and directs then to a specific servo port. Which control surface that servo moves is entirely up to you.

II have done this very thing on a 3 ch plane that was to be flown by someone who could only fly "rudder on the right". It only took a few seconds to do.

[911hillclimber]

That's what I've done Peter, simple so even I could do it.

works!

Graham.

[Piers Bowlan]

Posted by 911hillclimber on 14/03/2020 17:29:14:

Way back in the 60's a rich mate of mine built a Super 60 with a huge Merco and a single channel McGregor radio set and crystal, or similar radio. Gold painted Tx case iirc.

This radio system was just reaching the shops, fabulously simple. Can't remember if it had throttle control and rudder only.

If it was 'single channel' it would not have a throttle. Rudder only usually, although with the Elmic escapement I had in one of my models back in the day, 'kick-up elevator' too (allegedly), although I am not sure if it ever worked!

Regarding one of your servos running to full travel and staying there, it may have stripped some teeth from it's gear set. Alternatively you may have unwittingly mixed that channel with an other switched channel, although that seems unlikely. Your servo tester will soon tell you if it is working correctly in any event.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 14/03/2020 19:46:58

[Bob Cotsford]

Piers, cascaded compound escapements would have given rudder, progressive throttle and kick-up elevator. I ran model boats using single channel with a cascade servo driving a three position slave to give steering and throttle, that must have been around 1968!

[911hillclimber]

Tested the suspect and good servos this morning using the servo tester.

Good one is good, suspect one does not work, behaves as it has in the plane.

So, duff servo. Sending it back to 4-Max, hopefully will have another soon. Would love to take it apart and have a look, but that would be wrong.

Pre-owned iron arrived yesterday, looks brand new, so while I'm waiting for the radio, time to tackle the elephant in the room.

Going to start with tail surfaces as any cock-ups can be removed readily or a new frame made readily.

[kc]

With any new iron it would be important to test the temperature in the manner demonstrated by Derek Hardman in the Solarfilm video and on the old Solarfilm wrappers - a tiny scrap of Solarfilm etc on the iron and see how it wrinkles up. Hardly any is OK, quite wrinkly is too hot. Start cool when applying and increase heat gradually only as much as needed. Actually fully sheeted surfaces (if any on a vintage ) are the easiest to cover not the built up tail bits. Maybe make a solid rudder for a future design and try covering that.

[Don Fry]

Make a dummy wingtip, last foot of the wing. Can be as rough as dogs, made from old chair legs if you want. Practice covering that. In what field of life do you practice "the elephant in the room" on something that has a lot of time investment. Read the instruction. Think about what you want the covering to do. One skill springs to mind, shrinking round a curve. Slap it down, shrink on, mess results. Hold it tight, off the surface, apply iron, and holding tension, apply.

Practice on a dummy. Saves stress. Be advised, when you burn your fingers, you put up with the pain, and carry on with the job. Then after, think about why that happened. It will minimise pain in the long term. Perhaps 20 years. Enjoy.

[911hillclimber]

Just got going on a dummy part of balsa.

The covering is ORATEZ from Germany, an olde English Ivory.

Really impressed how you can tac and then even it out.

Just watched a few YouTube vids using this covering first but feels good today, so will press-on.

Not rushing as it may hamper things later.

[David Davis]

Sound advice as always from Don but I would favour making contact with a local club and asking whether there is anyone who might be prepared to show you how it's done. Don't be shy. There are sure to be one or two greybeards who are only too keen to help out a beginner.

Did you say in another post that you had already bought some Solartex? This is the covering I would recommend for a model like this especially if it is going to be used as a trainer. If Solartex is unavailable there is a similar German product called Oratex which has a good reputation but I've never used it myself.

Four pictures of three of my vintage models, all covered in Solartex, the double-sized Tomboy featuring my much younger self!

 

Edited By David Davis on 15/03/2020 12:47:19

[911hillclimber]

It is a 3 meter sheet of ORATEX I have.

Great colour and sheen/texture, it will suit the plane no end.

That Junior 60 in the last picture looks sooo good. Hope to take a similar picture soon.

I will try the DIY approach today/tomorrow, but I have a good feeling about doing it.

Might post differently in 24 hours time...

What a beauty of a Buccaneer this is!

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[911hillclimber]

Almost scared to say this, but that went well..

Really did. What a great material ORATEX is, so easy to handle and apply.

Iron worked really well (£26 of ebay) and really did everything.

Not a wrinkle in sight and only one very small scorch on my finger!

With this confidence, main wing tomorrow.

[Don Fry]

Good lad. Don't get cocky.

[David Davis]

[paul d]

Martin, your obviously a practical man, that looks perfect!

[911hillclimber]

Paul..it's Graham!

have to say what I felt was going to be hard turned out (so far) to be some of the most satisfying hours I've spent on this plane.

I can still remember the tissue and dope days higher than a kite and warped wings!

iirc some have said this material went out of production some time ago?

Mad!

[Don Fry]

Ora tex, you are good. They still make it.

But to go back to warnings, Consider where you put the iron. Don't slap it down.

Tissue/dope, I dream of thermionic valves. 20 kilos of battery, a transmitter box that weighs a ton, a machine that staggers into the air. Then the motor fails.

Back to the board for a couple of months.

[911hillclimber]

Good to read about the covering, the old STOL I bought from a work friend in the late 80's was obviously covered in it and the same colour.

hope I've bought enough...

[Piers Bowlan]

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 14/03/2020 20:14:32:

Piers, cascaded compound escapements would have given rudder, progressive throttle and kick-up elevator. I ran model boats using single channel with a cascade servo driving a three position slave to give steering and throttle, that must have been around 1968!

Impressive stuff Bob, thanks for the info. I can see it work on a boat which is only operating in two dimensions but it would have been challenging on an aeroplane, although no doubt it was done. I just dug out my MacGregor 'bang bang' SC Tx and Elmic Compact escapement- yes I still have it, (from 1970!). For kick up elevator it was 'press, release, press, release, press and hold. It worked on the ground but I don't think the model ever flew straight and level long enough to have the time to select it in the air! But I digress....

Very nice bit of covering work there Graham . You know Oratex is used on full sized light aircraft too but a slightly heavier weight is used.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 15/03/2020 21:02:18

[911hillclimber]

Didn't know that, but not surprised.

Real feel of quality about it.

looking forward to the challenge of the wings.

getting the camber rib by rib of the underside and wrinkle free will be fun.

[Don Fry]

To do the under camber,, start on the spar at the lowest part, attach the fabric. Then pin a bit of balsa over the fabric/spar. This prevents you unattching to when the fabric is under tension by inadvertently putting the iron on it. Then do th rest, 2 basically flat sections.

[David Davis]

Another trick when covering an undercambered wing is to cover the the underside and get it tight without pulling it away from the ribs and spars, then run a bead of cyano (super glue) along the ribs and spars to hold the covering in place before you cover the top of the wing. I've never done it myself but feel that I may well adopt the practice when I get round to covering the wings of my Big Guff.