2 or 3 questions please, need some wise advice

[Denis Watkins]

TAER

1 Throttle

2 Aileron

3 Elevator

4 Rudder

To fly IC, the BATT would have a 4.8v receiver pack

For your needs, channel 1 is Throttle

 

Edited By Denis Watkins on 12/03/2020 13:02:54

[911hillclimber]

Thank you Dennis, throttle is Channel 1!

Some progress!

Put the esc power lead not in Batt but in the channel next to it and the motor sprang into life, full throttle down to off but did not stop working!

I ran the throttle trim down to max and the motor stopped, but still revved as the stick was advanced to full throttle.

I re-adjusted the rim to -25 (of a 100) and the motor refused to stop, so trimmed to about -63 and the motor stopped, so trimmed to -70 to make sure.

Connected the one good servo (elevator) to channel 4 and that fully functions, connected the 'duff' servo and that is dead except for the quick buzz (no crank movement) when connected.

Switch the TX off and when all the lights were out, THE MOTOR SPRANGE INTO LIFE at about 10% throttle despite the stick being fully down.

Only way to stop the motor is to pull the battery plug.

Sigh...3 steps forwards, 1/2 step back.

So, the esc works I think, the one servo does not, and the motor feed has a mind of it's own.

Think I'm getting there.(?)

[Dickw]

Plug the ESC back into the Batt port, and with a good servo in the throttle channel make sure the servo moves OK when the throttle stick is operated.

Now put the ESC back into the throttle channel and run the ESC calibratiion procedure described earlier i.e.

Start with ESC battery unplugged and the prop removed. Turn radio on, set full throttle, plug battery into ESC, when you hear beeps pull throttle stick back to off.

Let us know what happens.

Dick

[Denis Watkins]

Ok, Failsafe needs setting

Get to a point where stick Down and trim down is Throttle off

Then Re Bind with the Stick Down

From this setting the motor should go back to Off

And, if the Tx is switched Off, the Motor is Off

[911hillclimber]

Dick/Dennis

Motor now stops running with TX stick and when Tx switched off (re-bound the system as suggested)

Tried the good servo into the throttle and it acts like the motor throttle, one extreme for off, other extreme for full throttle.

Put everything back in this order:

Esc 3 way into #1 channel (not Batt channel)

Good servo into elevator and all works I have throttle on the left stick, elevator on the right stick.

If I move the good servo to the rudder position (last channel available on the RX) the rudder control is on the throttle stick, right stick does nothing.

Is this the right 'convention'?

It feels more natural to me to have throttle on the left stick with Alierons on the left stick , and Rudder/elevator on the right stick.

It is possible according to the manual to assign these functions to the sticks called Modes. Damned if I can get the modes to change!

In summary so far, if I had 2 good servos I would have a plane that would be controlled, massive thank you to everyone sticking with this farce with me.

Taken me 3 hours or more to get this far. Ridiculous and embarrassing.!

Next task is to get the modes sorted somehow, I need Mode 4 on the right stick (Rud/El) and Mode 1 on the left stick (throttle/Aler).

Does this lot EVER end?

[911hillclimber]

Bloody hell!

Just managed to get the configuration I feel I need.

Have left stick = throttle/Al Throttle does what I ask it to do(!)

Have right stick = elevator using the good servo and rudder (if I use the good servo to test)

The duff servo is next on the list, maybe the last issue.

Mechanically it moves through 180 degrees by hand. If I leave it at one extreme of position and electrically connect it to the Rx channel of 'rudder' the servo advances 90 deg and then will not respond. The good servo sits at '0' position and will index =/- 45 deg in response to the stick which ever channel it is connected to.

The servo must be faulty?

So very nearly there, feel I have a BSc in R/C control systems.

[paul d]

Just had to check my model with the 410 in, rudder on the right stick is position 2 on the rx.

Does sound like a duff servo, take it apart and have a look, I recently had a duff one, turned out to be a poor solder connection internally and being a tight bugger ( another word for perpetually skint!) I repaired it...

[Don Fry]

Hillclimber, are you sure you want mode 4. Back in the day, when disc brakes were exotic, modes were many and various, as people taught themselves to fly, and build, as they reassembled the wreckage.

Nowadays the world does mode 1, a minority interest in the UK, or mode 2, about 90 % of U.K. fliers. You will not find an instructor on mode 4. Why reinvent the wheel?

An analogy, why does it feel right to turn the steering wheel clockwise for the car to go right. It is as logical to watch the bottom of the wheel, and surely, it should go left. When I steer my boat, I push it to the left, to go right. And to get my motorbike to go right, when I had one, I pushed the right bar, to lay it down to go right.

[kc]

There is a big advantage of belonging to a club - taking the model to the club would surely have got this sorted out in 10 minutes! You probably learnt more by sorting it out yourself though...

You seem to have set this up on Mode 2. You should learn to fly on the Mode that is normal in your intended club. Reason for this is mainly for instruction but later so that any member could take your model in emergency and eventually you may get offered the chance to fly someone elses model and gain experience.

. Most clubs fly Mode 2 (throttle left) while some fly Mode 1 ( throttle right) depends a lot on area. Rudder and Ailerons are same in both cases - just the elevator and throttle are swopped. There are other Modes possible but not common. But Mode 2 is a very different way of flying to Mode 1 where the main controls ( ailerons and elevator) are on separate sticks. But fly the club Mode unless there is a good reason not to.

[Denis Watkins]

911, you can choose any stick configuration, but remember 3 things

Your AR410 provides your TAER, so figure out odd configurations with those outputs in mind

It is unlikely any one else could fly your Model To help you

And if your alter the servos plugged normally to TAER then buddy box help could not help you

 

You may not need help, but all at my patch share somewhat and " give goes " of different models to each other

If you have to go it alone on configuration, then keep that in mind if anyone wants to share

 

Ohhhhhh  heck, KC and Don, beat me to it

 

Edited By Denis Watkins on 12/03/2020 16:50:51

[911hillclimber]

Paul:

I've emailed George at 4-Max, but no response.

They are cheap things, so prob worth seeing if it is something simple inside, but not designed to come apart!

Don, I am left handed and many conventions feel awkward if you are LH like me.

I play guitar right handed, played cricket LH and write LH and so on.

Mode 2 on Rt stick is El/Al and left stick is Throt/Rudder

So, as Mode 2 is the 'UK Norm' I'll reset the controls (if I can remember how).

Soon I will arrive at the local airfield and will need some help from the off, so having the Tx 'normal' to others will be important if I need a helping hand.

[PatMc]

Posted by 911hillclimber on 12/03/2020 15:56:27:

It feels more natural to me to have throttle on the left stick with Alierons on the left stick , and Rudder/elevator on the right stick.

Not sure if this is "teaching granny to suck eggs" but - you shouldn't really consider the horizontal stick movements as being assigned to "ailerons" & "rudder" but rather to primary & secondary turn controls. Normally ailerons are the primary turn control but you will be using rudder as primary therefore simply plug rudder into channel 2 & you will have rudder/elevator on the right stick. When you have a model with ailerons fitted - ailerons in ch 2, rudder - in ch 4.

BTW I fly mostly aileron equipped models with the channels arranged as described but for my rudder/elevator/motor only models I mix about 50% "aileron" to the redundant "rudder" stick at the Tx. This means that the left stick is still effective for turn control just in case I inadvertently try to steer with the left stick during take off as I would with a 4 function model.

[kc]

Servos sometimes fail when very new and it's worth having a servo tester to give the servo a 30 minute or more workout to see they are OK.   Testers are dead cheap at couple of pounds including post! Bit flimsy though so worth putting into a plastic box and using an extension lead ( buy a double socket type for 2 servos into one channel) to couple servo. Needs a spare nicad ( could be old ) and preferably a switch harness too, But worthwhile and can be used as a tester or to set up model without Tx.

Edited By kc on 12/03/2020 17:04:06

[Denis Watkins]

Put simply 911, just set up MODE 2 to ensure assistance at your field.

[911hillclimber]

To use Ailerons sounds a million miles away from where I am! Thank you though for the info, it would boggle my mind.

 

Just as the last minute has.

 

It all works!

Why? I re-assigned the functions to rudder to rudder, throttle to throttle etc right through. Came out of System to normal control so now the Tx is talking to the Rx.

 

Left stick now gives rudder (left to right) and throttle (up and down) MODE 2.

Right Stick gives elevator only up and down, nothing left and right. MODE 2

The 'duff' servo now works perfectly. The 'Good' servo still works perfectly, in fact everthing works perfectly.

There must be some connectivity thing happened to make the 'duff' servo suddenly work correctly, it switches on in mid travel and has 30 deg or so +/- movement to left stick command.

The ESC gives 3 good beeps (3 cells ok signal?) followed by 2 closer spaced beeps and then silence but working.

 

Dare I say it, but I'm there.

Mode 2 compliant, Everything works.

What a game, sorry to have possibly bored and irritated, but I'm so grateful for all the help from you all.

Next step? COVERING.

 

Taking engines out of race cars seems so simple...

Edited By 911hillclimber on 12/03/2020 17:14:33

Edited By 911hillclimber on 12/03/2020 17:15:21

[kc]

The only thing left now is to ensure that the controls work in the correct direction. This catches out even the most experienced --especially ailerons!

[Bruce Collinson]

Get a proper covering iron! Lots of contributors to this forum use small travel irons but the majority agree, a bespoke film iron is a godsend and I think I saw one on BMFA classifieds earlier.

BTC

[PatMc]

Posted by 911hillclimber on 12/03/2020 17:13:40:

Left stick now gives rudder (left to right) and throttle (up and down) MODE 2.

Sorry but that's not Mode 2 for a R/E/T model.

Left stick should only control throttle, right stick rudder & elevator.

If you want Mode 2, simply plug the switch the rudder servo to channel 2.

[Don Fry]

Posted by kc on 12/03/2020 17:36:38:

The only thing left now is to ensure that the controls work in the correct direction. This catches out even the most experienced --especially ailerons!

Prod, some good advice. 60 years in, I still lean in the direction they go in. I belong to the reversed aileron, black bag club.

[911hillclimber]

I'm getting lost now.

I had the left stick doing only throttle, and my plan was to have the right stick doing rudder and elevator but comment was this was wrong, but I feel is the right orientation to my left hand mind.

Ill give it ago and hope the servos both carry on working!

Ive called the mode numbers from the Spektrum manual.

lll look into these irons tomorrow.

[Denis Watkins]

You are correct 911, in your case 3 channel

Primary control on the right stick, motor On the left

It is your plane anyhow

[911hillclimber]

Just moved the formally duff servo which now works to the channel adjacent to the lead from the esc throttle channel and I now have

left hand stick with throttle up and down, nothing left to right. Motor responds correctly.

right hand stick rudder and elevator, both servos work correctly.

on switch on of the Tx the esp beeps 3x and then 2 more rapid beeps and the plane is ready and functioning.

whatever those modes are I don't know.

Job done.

[PatMc]

Posted by 911hillclimber on 12/03/2020 18:50:36:

I had the left stick doing only throttle, and my plan was to have the right stick doing rudder and elevator

That's correct for mode2

As I said previously don't think of it as "rudder", think of it as primary direction control. Of course with RET it's the only direction control.

[kc]

Mode is not really a left or right handed thing, it is whether you split the main controls ( elev& steering ) between 2 sticks ( Mode 1) or have them on the same stick ( Mode 2)

It seems to me Mode 1 uses both sides of the brain ( 1 half for steering on right hand. the other half for elevator on left hand) and theoretically should be easier for that reason. And of course each stick only need precise movement in one plane while a bit of unintended movement in the other plane is not critical. By contrast Mode 2 needs precise movement in two planes at once but only on the right hand stick. . Anyway follow your club and only think about changing if it seems really awkward after a couple of flights.

[David Davis]

Posted by 911hillclimber on 12/03/2020 19:16:18:

Just moved the formally duff servo which now works to the channel adjacent to the lead from the esc throttle channel and I now have

left hand stick with throttle up and down, nothing left to right. Motor responds correctly.

right hand stick rudder and elevator, both servos work correctly.

on switch on of the Tx the esp beeps 3x and then 2 more rapid beeps and the plane is ready and functioning.

whatever those modes are I don't know.

Job done.

This is the conventional Mode 2 set up on a model without ailerons. Unless the club you join is overwhelmingly Mode 1, stick with it.