2 or 3 questions please, need some wise advice

[paul d]

Apologies Graham, got my conversations mixed up, covering still looks good!

[911hillclimber]

No need for you or anyone to say sorry, maybe I should for this l o n g thread!

My approach on the gently under cambered wing is to tack to the root rib at the spar line.

Tac along the spar line 1/3 of the 1/2 span and then 'line-iron' along the spar length to the tip. I've cut a thick piece of card with a 6mm slot so the heat of the iron generally will not shrink the surface of the material. Then work out and along the ribs to the trail and leading edges. Secure the covering to the wing tips and the leading/trail edges.

Do this on both sides.

Do the top in the same way but not along each rib.

Both sides done, shrink the surfaces smooth.

Cover the central area where the bands will bear top and bottom.

Then:

Have a glass of red wine. I will have deserved it....

Will post some pics if it looks good enough to pass muster with you experts.

[Denis Watkins]

There is only one expert on this thread

And he drives a Porsche Uphill

Absolutely splendid model building and covering

Edited By Denis Watkins on 16/03/2020 14:13:55

[911hillclimber]

Well, the wing took 3 hours to cover!

Felt like forever, but, all done and I'm dead chuffed with the result.

just on cluster of wrinkles that will not budge but only cover about 10mm x 10mm on one wing tip, top surface of course...

Question, the centre section that has the elastic bands over it seems a bit fragile or me, should L double cover it?

Irritatingly, mis calculated the cover needed to do the plane, so just ordered some more of the same which stops play for a few days.

4-Max sending a new servo today, so that should bring the radio together.

Maybe I should order another kit to tide me over the virus period.....

Pictures tomorrow in the sun.

[911hillclimber]

Bit of an up-date.

New servo from 4-Max is good and the radio works great, just as I want it, left stick throttle, right stick rudder/elevator.

The wing and some of the fuselage is covered, and teased that small wrinkle out of the wing too.

Doped the bare balsa of the none to toughen the surface ready for the Humbrol paint, and about to machine a new prop spinner/nut in a more period look on my 1944 Drummond lathe, lovely thing.

Decided to rubber band the rear section on rather than glue, there is a small glue area once the covering would be cut away, so feel better using bands.

Finally, doped the actuator control links from the servos to the surfaces to toughen those up to.

So, a lot of progress with just the main frame to cover, paint detail and final servo fit-up.

Some pictures for you:

[Simon Chaddock]

011hillclimber

I have my Dad's Drummond flat bed which he bought in 1928(ish) and it was second hand then!

In 1960's he managed to get the appropriate castings from Myford (they bought out Drummond just after the war) and make the necassary parts to convert his to the 'Admiralty' pattern (as used on wartime submarines) that gives a powered saddle and cross feed.

Apparently such Drummonds are rare as Myford insisted that all of them in naval service were officially scrapped post war to protect their business.

Yes they are delightful lathes. Soon it will officially be a family antique.

[911hillclimber]

Interesting!

They are very nice lathes. The round Bed design I think is younger than the longer flat bed designs. I think mine was a treddle powered unit converted to single phase motor in the 50/60's.

I retired a bit early, and part of my 'present' to myself was to get a small lathe (I had exclusive access to a perfect Myford Super 7 at work).

This Drummond Round Bed came from the back of an old garage in a small village in the Lake District.

'Old Joe' had just restored it (ie painted it drab green hammerite) but the lathe was good. I welded up a solid stand for it and love it.

Fabulous to have access to a nice lathe. Used it a lot on many projects over the last 5 years.

The prop spinner came out nicely, a snub-nose shape rather than the racey conical nut that came with the motor..

 

Time to fit the motor and ensure the prop goes the right way before the covering goes on the nose areas.

Edited By 911hillclimber on 18/03/2020 17:08:48

[paul d]

Superb job!! jolly well done!

[Don Fry]

Really nice. Some cocky is allowed. Over the years, I have seen some prospective flying machines which were right dogs.

I assume, you have eyeballed the wings for warps. Those old timers have a tendency to be a bit less stiff than modern stuff. Process is, stand in front of it, eyes up, and down, noting the relationship of leading edge and trailing edge. Hint, old knees are assisted by packing under the wheels. Small warps can be sorted, but best sorted before takeoff.

Wish I had access to a full size small lathe. When I was a kid the lathe and mill were American, Cincinnati?. Anyway, no mill. Tiny lathe. Surprising what it will turn out. And my workshop is crammed, too small.

[911hillclimber]

I did check for warp in the main wind on the flat of the building board after ironing everything, one is warped by about 2mm and the other side a little less.

Not sure if they were flat as in flat off the board as the basic balsa build.

The truth of the wing to tail wing is good, but the fuselage is yet to be covered fully.

It was tedious pinning the hinges in. I cut the covering at the pre-drilled positions from the underside on the tail plane, balsa cement in and pressed the pin home, all were good tight fits, pins cut from hardwood round.

I then sealed the cut with balsa cement locally.

While I wait for the covering to arrive the motor will be bolted in.

I think 2 deg side thrust is about right, ie with the plan view of the plane, motor at '12 noon' the motor shaft at 2 deg clockwise..

[kc]

You mentioned buying a kit to keep building in case of isolation. My view is that one should build in advance and build the model that will progress your flying - i.e one step at a time and don't build a Spitfire just yet.

Look at the following UK kit makers- DB Sport & Scale who do kits and plan packs ( precut wing ribs and buy your own balsa) consider the Skyrider, Barnstormer,etc

SLEC - electric Limbo dancer, elec Fun Fly etc which will be a fair bit more aerobatic than your vintage models

Chris Foss kits like AcroWot or Wot4 ( balsa kits not the ARTF models)

And of course numerous plans from RCME

[911hillclimber]

Take your point, but there are two small planes on the 4-Max site...

not sure Mrs Hillclimber would approve.

Im avoiding the garden only because it's raining......

[kc]

The smaller the plane the more difficult to see, the more twitchy it may be ........so most of us build in the 48 to 55 inch span range for aerobatic. Above that it's much more expensive in electric.

[911hillclimber]

Yet another 5 steps BACK this morning!

When will this radio ever end?

Decided to fit the motor permanently today, pulled the motor wires from the esc to route them correctly. Re-connected the motor, wires probably in a different order.

The throttle did not work ar all. It has been perfect for a million trials up to last night.

Got it all out of the plane, charges the batteries etc, removed the servos from the Rx.

Spent ages trying to get the motor to respond to the Tx, nothing. Motor would sometimes give a single beep at regular intervals of about 3 seconds. Goodness knows what that means.

Had lunch and tried again.

Nothing then for some reason it gave the usual 3 beeps then followed by 2 more. (it did this when I got it going a few weeks ago, and has done it on every start-up since)

The throttle responds to the stick and turns off. The motor even rotated correct direction.

HOWEVER, when I switch the Tx off and the system has 'died-off' the motor will restart at quite low revs, constant speed.

You can stop this by disconnecting the battery in the plane or by turning the Tx on.

I've had this before, but can't think how I stopped it but it might be the motor cut-off trim level, but any thoughts?

I've checked every lead for intermittent connections.

[kc]

It is very important from a safety point of view to have the throttle at low throttle BEFORE connecting battery and probably the ESC is reminding you and therefore blocking start up because it's not at low throttle but set somewhere else.

Edited By kc on 19/03/2020 17:55:36

[911hillclimber]

Yes, totally correct.

I now have absolutely nothing responding to the left stick and the throttle. No beeps from the motor etc.

I've re-calibrated the ESC as per 4-Max instructions, set the cut-off to switch 23 (top left switch at the back). The switch works, one position the stick shows no indication of movement, move the switch and you can see the stick's response on Servo Set-Up.

The servo set up screen shows the throttle at -101, range is 100/100.

I've tried the 'off' position at -129 and nothing changes.

It is as if there is no signal going from the Rx to the ESC/Motor and I simply cannot see what is doing this.

Now just going round in circles with the dam thing.

Just what have I got wrong?

[Richard Ashworth]

You often have to put as much “down” trim as you can on the throttle. The stick fully back does not take the esc fully to the off position by itself.

Had this a couple of times on my Spektrum tx.

[Charles Scott-Knox-Gore]

911hillclimber. Did you get your motor from 4max? I bought one from them for my Ohmen, and one of the wires from the motor simply fell out. 4Max would not let me send it back to them, and said I must have pulled it out, which I certainly had not. The best they would do was to sell me another motor at a 20% discount, so I duly bought that, and it has worked perfectly.

I went back to the old one and peeled back the heat shrink where the loose wire was joined, and found some white powder where the wire should have been soldered. I cleaned this up, re-soldered the joint, and re-applied heatshrink. The motor now works perfectly.

I wonder therefore whether your problem is due to a simple loose connection due to a poorly soldered joint. Worth a look anyway.

[911hillclimber]

What a faff!

All working perfectly now, Not at all sure what I've done, but KS made me think harder!

It is all to do with the 'off' throttle position and the throttle range. Anyway, I'm going to write down all the settings off the Tx for future reference in case thing go off the cliff edge again.

Found a small old model airplane with a Co2 engine in a cabinet yesterday, clean forgot about it.

My first thing bought off ebay no less. It looks a bit injured, but restorable. Will picture it tomorrow on another thread...

[911hillclimber]

All finished today!

Pity I cannot go and try it.

Everything together and final details done ie a splash of colour but keeping it very simple.

Radio all works (!).

I'm please with my efforts and the 'come-back' to the game which I've found very enjoyable. The part I worried about most I found the easiest and most satisfying, the covering.

The wood build was very relaxing, the radio the opposite!

Thank you to all who have helped me along the way.

Some final pictures:

Edited By 911hillclimber on 24/03/2020 10:36:59

[Don Fry]

Very nice Hillclimber. If not assembly demonstors, those elastic bands look a bit thin, and lacking number (4 to 6), for flight. There is a joyful part of flying called wing clacking, as the wing leading edge comes up under flight loads, and clacks back on the seat as the machine moves about, sometimes it falls off.

And everyone dances about with joy and laughter.

[Bob Cotsford]

As Don says, very nice! Are the cabin sides glazed? If they are it's come out nice and clear. I always end up with a few fingerprints or dribbles of glue somewhere.

[911hillclimber]

Thank you!

the bands were for picture taking only

The plane is fully glazed. The front screen was tricky, but ok.

[David Davis]

Posted by Don Fry on 24/03/2020 11:26:32:

...

And everyone dances about with joy and laughter.

Ain't that the truth!

[Don Fry]

Yep, I start rebuilding this tomorrow.