Is the hobby dying/dead

[Erfolg]

The question posed is the "Hobby Dying/dead".

The answer to it is,not dead or dying, most unfortunately it is in decline.

No amount of being in denial, changes this general fact the numbers undertaking the hobby, in all of its guises, has declined Not one of us on this site likes this.

Many reasons have been identified. It is almost certain the issue is not confined to a single issue, more a combination of issues.

I have made it plain I do not know the answer, others may no the answer. All I would observe some truly valiant and persistent efforts have not to date found a universal solution. As a hobby we certainly benefit from the efforts of a small number of people. Unfortunately in themselves they do not attract new entrants, although these efforts and contributions are making the BMFA, Clubs and Competitions viable.

Not all is lost, not yet. For many years I cycled, without fail doing a club run, of about 70 miles, at least weekly. As the years ticked by, it was apparent that road cycling was dead or dying. Both MTB and BMX were seen as the future of cycling. this was true from my 30s to my late 40s. I really enjoyed seeing a programme about a Lotus bike, revolutionary, to be ridden by Chris Boardman. His Olympic success, followed by Queen Victoria, Chris Hoy and so many more has changed the UK scene. Things do occasionally change fundamentally, in the case of cycling it was making cycling Cool. Much was good luck in addition to addressing many issues that help create the impression that cycling was a yesteryear activity, for losers. Memories are short, todays cyclist in most cases never heard of Tommy Simpson, or Beryl Burton or Reg Harris (unless they go to the Manchester Velodrome and wonder about a statue. At present our hobby is not cool.

Things can change, how much can easily be planned is a question, we just know what we have done to date does not.

Covid is now a issue for the Trade and no doubt the BMFA. I imagine that the NFC is a financial issue, not earning any substantial income in over a year, yet costing approx. £30, 000 in standing expenditure. It will need funding until the (hopefully) planned World Championship.

There are more immediate challenges than just attracting new members. After I have gone, I dearly hope that the hobby continues as more than a niche activity.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Glass half full or half empty ?

We are ALL aware of where we are, and of the challenges now and in the future, denial is NOT what some of us suffer from.

Question for me is what to do ? Moan and present a pessimistic front, or get stuck in and deal with issues that we can affect and project a positive face. The men and women up and down the Country trying new things, being welcoming, trying anything and everything will mean we survive, change will keep coming, these people will keep going. The day they give up, is the day we are really DOOMED.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by john stones 1 Moderator on 27/01/2021 15:39:35:

Glass half full or half empty ?

We are ALL aware of where we are, and of the challenges now and in the future, denial is NOT what some of us suffer from.

Question for me is what to do ? Moan and present a pessimistic front, or get stuck in and deal with issues that we can affect and project a positive face. The men and women up and down the Country trying new things, being welcoming, trying anything and everything will mean we survive, change will keep coming, these people will keep going. The day they give up, is the day we are really DOOMED.

I fully agree. But pretending there aren't challenges, such as a decline in field availability (two lost in my area in the last three years and another in doubt) is silly.

One answer is join together and BUY a suitable field, checking that planning permission will be available first of course. That's what we anglers do with many lakes and lengths of river (fishing rights go with land ownership). It won't go down in value.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I see no one pretending there aren't challenges, I said quite the opposite.

[Ray Wood 4]

Hi All,

It's not just model flying that are facing challenges in these computer orientated days, RC was magic back in the 60's & 70's the practical skills have been disappearing for the last 40 years model engineering and model boats are facing the same ageing group of enthusiasts . Still I'm looking forward to a good few years pursuing my many and various modelling hobbies

Stay safe & happy

Regards Ray

[Clarence Ragland]

All is not lost. Better days are coming the summer. Stay tuned. All I need is just a tiny bit of support.

NFC?

Edited By Clarence Ragland on 27/01/2021 16:48:58

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by john stones 1 Moderator on 27/01/2021 16:19:26:

I see no one pretending there aren't challenges, I said quite the opposite.

You didn't. but some have. And those who said there were problems were accused of being 'negative'.

I think the BMFA did well with their 'National' field. But I just posted that others can do it too, which is at least a suggestion. We don't need any buildings, Someone's bound to have an estate car or a Transit we can put a mower in..

The land value will likely go up too, but that's not what we would be doing it for so if it goes down it won't matter. 20 years or so ago I would have put quite a lot if others also came up with substantial amounts too. But not now. At 75 I would not put so much as I probably won't be doing it for much longer.

And the pleasure lasts a lot longer than buying a new car that will lose at least 30% of it's value the moment you drive it out of the dealers.

[i12fly]

Posted by Geoff S on 27/01/2021 00:08:06:

Are people under the age of 18 deemed vulnerable? I ask because both my wife and I were living and working beyond the control of parents well before we were 18 (and in those days the majority was 21). My wife was working in Nottingham and living at the YWCA when she was barely 16 (her parents lived in Boston) and I was living in digs in Welwyn Gdn City when I was just 17 and working at Murphy Radio with day release and night school.

I was baby-sitting my half siblings at 11.

I wasn't particularly unique. Perhaps we were more responsible or the opportunities were less in the 1950s

Geoff

Hi Geoff

The BMFA sample constitution (reviewed 2020) section for guidance on caring for junior members says on page 14:

"A junior member is defined as being under 18 ears of age"

That's the way the law sees it. You and I were clearly much more grown up(?) when we were young, able to say 'no' or 'go away' politely or otherwise if necessary. But then again the 'metoo' victims would disagree and suffered. I guess alot of us knew one or two suspect people, but it was different times, as a group of kids we made fun of them and kept away (although one, a teacher was difficult to keep away from -he didn't try anything at school but was locked up eventually). In those days it just seemed normal to avoid certain people, we didn't know any better and never thought to report it.

So, attract the parents to the club -with their juniors.

link to BMFA example constitution

[Andrew Calcutt]

It is as long as the bmfa stops us standing in a field maybe on our own.You can go fishing or for a walk,this could go for months maybe years maybe for ever.

[John Stainforth]

Andrew, I think you are unfairly blaming the BMFA for this. They are merely following government guidelines. They would be accused of being irresponsible if they didn't.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Andrew Calcutt on 27/01/2021 19:20:24:

It is as long as the bmfa stops us standing in a field maybe on our own.You can go fishing or for a walk,this could go for months maybe years maybe for ever.

I don't think the BMFA stops us flying, it doesn't have the power to do that except at their National site. Our site comes under the 'Forestry Commission' and the public has access but can't fly without a 'permit' of purely nominal cost per year.

And unlike the previous lockdowns the Forestry Commission had left open all the 'gated' car parks, including the one we use. Usually we would take that as being ok to fly, which is almost all the time. .

But I don't think anyone is flying as it is an 'activity' other than 'exercise'.

Fishing is certainly allowed but that's mostly private - fishing right go with land ownership and is often leased to a club..

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

As several posters have pointed out, this thread is about the future of model flying. While Covid is affecting us all in the short term, it's outside the remit of the thread so please let's avoid getting sidetracked.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Several OT posts deleted despite the previous request - although some were trying to be helpful they were all detracting from the thread.

This is a thread about the future of model flying - let's keep it that way.

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 27/01/2021 21:01:53

[Pete Pilot]

I’m 38, so not young per se, but by the standards of the hobby I’m on the young side..?

Kids now a days (see, I am old) have this push button mentality, meaning if it requires more than a button push it’s too hard. Companies have tried to cater to this by creating all these automatic self leveling planes, but inevitably the plane still crashes and the effort required to fix the plane is too much for most. After which the kid says, well I flew RC planes, what’s next? This may partially be because kids aren’t saving up to buy their first planes, but instead getting them for free and therefore having no investment in the plane.

Can we change this? Can we make the hobby cool? Not sure, but this year I started creating YouTube videos of my experience with RC planes, highlighting the fun, excitement, crashes and funny moments in the hopes that it may inspire others, specifically friends and family members to gain interest in the hobby. My friends/family do think it’s cool and interesting but none have ran out and bought a plane yet...

A new hobby in a similar category that does seem to be getting the attention of young folks is FPV racing drones. I think it’s because it feels like a video game, and because people see incredible videos shot with these drones and want to do that themselves.

However if you know anything about FPV drones they require a decent amout of money ($500 minimum), soldering, computer and troubleshooting skills, and then learning to fly takes a lot of practice. Add this to the host of new laws everywhere and this hobby is going to shrink before it grows.

What can we do? I guess keep enjoying the hobby, share fun stories, pictures and videos often, and invite people to join whenever possible, especially children and grandchildren.

That’s my two cents, or maybe a bit more...

-Peter “Live to Hobby”

Edited By Pete Pilot on 27/01/2021 22:18:56

Edited By Pete Pilot on 27/01/2021 22:19:17

Edited By Pete Pilot on 27/01/2021 22:19:30

[Clarence Ragland]

Hobby shops must offer excellent customer service to stay in business. In order to make the sale, owners must tell their customers to join a club and instructors will provide flight instruction.

But what the shop owner dare not reveal to their customers is the hoops newcomers must jump through to learn how to fly. Not a knock on any club, but most clubs do the best that they can do. I've been told by many beginners who came to me for help that they considered that it seemed like a bait-and-switch scheme on the part of the hobby shop owner. There is no one to blame as everyone does the best the they can do. It's just how things are.

[Clarence Ragland]

I had conversation with the head man at Hobby Town Unlimited a while back, and he seemed interested in what I was offering all of his 125 franchise stores. Then Covid-19 hit us. So I guess we will have to see what's going to happen this coming flying season. I had the same problem with Horizon Hobby. We'll see.

[Steve Jones 2]

30,000 members with approx only 17% below 44 yrs of age... Dead ? Not quite but getting there.....

[Cuban8]

The downward trend is worrying - 36000, 30000 and possibly a drop into the high 20Ks this year. Just regard it as a blip if we keep our positive hats on, but the data over the next few years will tell the whole story

"Dead? Not quite but getting there"..........

A bit dramatic, but we will need to adapt and adopt to counter a contracting membership, if indeed numbers are to be seen to fall over the coming decade.

[Matt Carlton]

Bear in mind that the average age of a Golf club member in the UK is about 65 and probably has been for decades. Some pastimes are ones which people gravitate towards when time, family commitments and money permit. There are probably countless would be modellers who will come to it in time.

[Phil McCavity]

Posted by Steve Jones 2 on 28/01/2021 07:49:56:

30,000 members with approx only 17% below 44 yrs of age... Dead ? Not quite but getting there.....

.....and how long has the hobby comprised of a 17% membership below the age of 44yrs old and still survived?

It's the joiner to leaver ratio that's the primary factor not the age demographic.

[Geoff S]

Posted by Phil McCavity on 28/01/2021 10:28:40:

Posted by Steve Jones 2 on 28/01/2021 07:49:56:

30,000 members with approx only 17% below 44 yrs of age... Dead ? Not quite but getting there.....

.....and how long has the hobby comprised of a 17% membership below the age of 44yrs old and still survived?

It's the joiner to leaver ratio that's the primary factor not the age demographic.

Absolutely. I didn't start with any form of RC modelling until a serious cycle accident forced me to give up my first love (sailing) when I was in my mid-50s, 25 years ago. It's a hobby that doesn't need the agility I lost and provides something of a challenge. I was too busy doing other things when I was younger.

Geoff

[Matt Carlton]

Agreed. Better a growing BMFA of 50k 50yr olds than a shrinking one of 20k 20yr olds.

[Erfolg]

I know I am repeating myself, I justify this on the grounds, reality is important.

Bureaucracy does dissuade many people. In our case it cannot be ignored, in that EASA regs/law are here to stay. The piece in the BMFA Mag, I found daunting, in that I recognised much if not all of it, but off tputting. The article is not a criticism of the BMFA, a good example of both communicating and informing the membership.

The cost of £9 for registration, by todays everyday costs, not great. When combined with other costs, IMO not welcomed. Again nothing we can do about it. Still not welcomed.

Having to carry a number of documents with you to legally fly, is yet another nuisance. I have again checked that I have copies in my Tx case, as I was not sure that it was all still there. Yet another nuisance.

Until relatively recently I used to fly on a short Golf Course/park, on the moors on my way to Ilkley. I must admit, I am not sure if this is still legal. I guess it is. Although fling on the local beach and dunes is not due to locality to two airfields, just 5 miles away. Another nuisance.

As modeler that enjoys our hobby, not as attractive, as the Liaise Faire as it has been.

In the past as a club secretary, the club voted to decline the introduction of the "A" cert, as most modeled to escape continuous Professional Development, of a working role.

Non of the above can avoided, in some cases enough to dissuade some in joining us.

The decline in BMFA membership is almost certainly a continuing trend. The ratio of ages does provide a potential picture of the future. Just because us oldens cannot indefinitely avoiding dying. Each passing year also shifts the mode and mean value to the right. This trend will continue as long as low numbers enter or renter the hobby, and can be anticipated as the scew also shifts ever further to the right. The BMFA does understand the trends,I understand that plans have and are being introduced as part of a continuous process.

Another emerging problem seems to be the reducing sales of Quads in places such as Smyths, as well as the very cheap indoor/park infra red type toys (I still have a few).

Non of this provides a solution, just a view of the landscape as it is.

From my industrial experience, it was noticeable that pared of bits of expenditure here and there did not save the money being sought, it did help slow down overspend, temporarily. What had to be done to save the money sought was deletion of major components. This suggests that individual efforts, are much more effective as part of a major intervention. Again what needs to be done to change the current trend alludes me.

I hope I am not being totally pessimistic, in noting that not many knit cloths these days or make dresses. Yet there are two shops near here that exclusively for these pastimes. It could be that we will continue on a new lower level of activity, for many years.

 

Edited By Erfolg on 28/01/2021 12:35:19

[Dickw]

Posted by Erfolg on 28/01/2021 12:32:56:...............................

Having to carry a number of documents with you to legally fly, is yet another nuisance. I have again checked that I have copies in my Tx case, as I was not sure that it was all still there. Yet another nuisance.

................................

I just carry my BMFA membership card. It proves I am currently a BMFA member, and also that I have both the RCC and a B certificate to prove my competence.

The OP ID on my plane is all I need to prove CAA registration.

I do have other documents saved in my mobile phone (including the Article 16 Authorisation), but that is just because I like to be able to check things!

Dick

[Ray Wood 4]

Hi All,

I can't really see any of this thread being of any value, we only have to listen to the media's prophets of doom to get our fill of negativity ?

Happy flying soon

Regards Ray