The Big Question ?

[Graham Davies 3]

1 hour ago, Eric Robson said:

Quite an easy model to make in foam board Graham it's on  my list but so are many others, I would like to do a foam board ic model. But all this is counter productive to solving Richard's dilemma.

Maybe Eric, but it's not hard to create a kit of precut foamboard and may bring the price down into the area where it's competitive against Dynam etc. 

 

Richard's idea of making 'sections' of foam may also be worth exploring as it makes construction even easier.

[andrew exton]

10 hours ago, Graham Davies 3 said:

Thanks Leccy,

 

This was made directly from a 3 view. I could make ANY warbird I choose. At this scale, I can make a wing structure that supports retracts; I'd have to think about how to do it if it were a bit bigger, but it would certainly be possible. The problem is that if we can't currently convince the great unwashed to build a foam veneer/ laser cut kit, then getting them to build a foamboard kit is a big ask. It's not that hard, but calls on a bit of problem solving and manual skill, which is a scarce commodity these days, it seems.

 

 

Graham

slight side track here but is there anywhere or any thread  that goes through the process of converting a 3 view into a buildable or built model , im not thick but not the sharpest needle in the stack but would love to try 

 

andy

[leccyflyer]

There's the second part of an article on model design and build from a three view in this months magazine - discussing the creation of rather a nice Avro Shackleton. Well worth a read.

[Ron Gray]

19 minutes ago, andrew exton said:

slight side track here but is there anywhere or any thread  that goes through the process of converting a 3 view into a buildable or built model , im not thick but not the sharpest needle in the stack but would love to try 

 

andy

Start another thread/topic?

[RICHARD WILLS]

A new thread on how to do your own designs would be great. I'd be happy to chip in . I know I hold the worlds remaining stock 😋but the Gordon Whitehead book really is superb . But if you cant afford that , the Peter Holland book (though not really scale orientated) is still good.

There is a huge amount of fun to be had designing your own stuff , but I can also save you from a lot of pain !

 

Regarding this thread , I particularly enjoy engaging with you all . As I said , I have spoken to pretty much everyone over the years and without exception , always feel I am talking to an old friend . The similar out look and interests put us all on the same page . 

During those chats , you will probably have realised that my focus , surprisingly , is not selling kits . There never has been any money to made in it , so for me it is my enthusiasm for Warbirds and seeing other people enjoy my designs . (and helping them develop and avoid the pitfalls ) . My utopia would be if we all lived one county and could have a club that just flew WW2 models . Can you imagine what fun that would be ? If TN and Brian Taylor could be there too , then even better!

 

Coming back to reasonable objectives , I suppose what I am really looking for with this kind of exploration is this :

We have all had a large part of our lives where we could scurry off to the shed with a new wooden kit and images of the box lid of  an airfix kit lit large in our inner eye .

There is still (but only just ) enough manufacturing capacity in this country to make something if there is a market for say 50. To get 50 takers on something exotic or off piste wont happen . But to get 50 on something like a 47 -54" hand launch (or tube launch ) model is more likely . 

I see two options as a possible .

An all built up fighter of 48" . 

A cheaper (therefor more accessible ) version of one of my early designs or similar but with no skin . What I mean is , take say my original semi scale Tempest of 54" . 

Make the wings and top decks out of Blue foam instead of foam veneer . Perhaps a semi scale Fw190 to go with it . 

Once they were brown papered , I could lead you through finishing with a B and Q paints and no spraying .

 

[Eric Robson]

9 hours ago, Graham Davies 3 said:

Maybe Eric, but it's not hard to create a kit of precut foamboard and may bring the price down into the area where it's competitive against Dynam etc. 

 

Richard's idea of making 'sections' of foam may also be worth exploring as it makes construction even easier.

Hi Graham,

I have built Richard's Warbirds Hurricane which has foam veneer wings and a rear deck of polystyrene foam but there was not a large uptake on the model so only a small run was made, not enough to for him to retire to the tropics from. Foam veneered wings aren't a cheap option now and as you know foam board is still looked on as not very permanent so there is a very limited market. Everyone admires the models we and others make from foam and depron etc. Simon Chaddock's jet models from insulation board are very popular but not a queue of people wanting to build one despite the low cost. 

The modelling fraternity is spoiled by  ARTF models but having cornered the market and driven the price up it is difficult almost impossible for anyone to start producing a range of kits to compete. 

[Graham R]

27 minutes ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

A new thread on how to do your own designs would be great. I'd be happy to chip in . I know I hold the worlds remaining stock 😋but the Gordon Whitehead book really is superb . But if you cant afford that , the Peter Holland book (though not really scale orientated) is still good.

There is a huge amount of fun to be had designing your own stuff , but I can also save you from a lot of pain !

 

Regarding this thread , I particularly enjoy engaging with you all . As I said , I have spoken to pretty much everyone over the years and without exception , always feel I am talking to an old friend . The similar out look and interests put us all on the same page . 

During those chats , you will probably have realised that my focus , surprisingly , is not selling kits . There never has been any money to made in it , so for me it is my enthusiasm for Warbirds and seeing other people enjoy my designs . (and helping them develop and avoid the pitfalls ) . My utopia would be if we all lived one county and could have a club that just flew WW2 models . Can you imagine what fun that would be ? If TN and Brian Taylor could be there too , then even better!

 

Coming back to reasonable objectives , I suppose what I am really looking for with this kind of exploration is this :

We have all had a large part of our lives where we could scurry off to the shed with a new wooden kit and images of the box lid of  an airfix kit lit large in our inner eye .

There is still (but only just ) enough manufacturing capacity in this country to make something if there is a market for say 50. To get 50 takers on something exotic or off piste wont happen . But to get 50 on something like a 47 -54" hand launch (or tube launch ) model is more likely . 

I see two options as a possible .

An all built up fighter of 48" . 

A cheaper (therefor more accessible ) version of one of my early designs or similar but with no skin . What I mean is , take say my original semi scale Tempest of 54" . 

Make the wings and top decks out of Blue foam instead of foam veneer . Perhaps a semi scale Fw190 to go with it . 

Once they were brown papered , I could lead you through finishing with a B and Q paints and no spraying .

 

Hi Richard, Regarding old designs, a Yak or Mig would fit the bill very nicely. (surprise surprise 😀😁😇)

[Graham Davies 3]

11 minutes ago, Graham R said:

Hi Richard, Regarding old designs, a Yak or Mig would fit the bill very nicely. (surprise surprise 😀😁😇)

Like this?

 

WR Yak3. My favourite 'Bird...

 

[Graham R]

Graham YES YES YES!!!

[RICHARD WILLS]

I really like my Yak and could knock some out in a trice , but based on previous , we wont get many takers ? Easy camo though . I fly mine a lot and would say its vice free . 

Graham R  flew my Yak and La7 . Ask him for candid reports . 

I think the Patriotic trend would demand a Brit though . What do you all think ? Or is the Hurry /Spit /Typhoon /Tempest over done ?

The plus side with Russian stuff is simple designs , colourful but easy to do a cheap decal set with stars /numbers and lightning stripes . 

 

[leccyflyer]

The only downside in certain quarters with Russian stuff is the current unpleasantness in Ukraine - there's quite a few folks chipping in online who are  either refinishing existing models, or shying away from Russian schemes and replacing them with Ukrainian or other former Eastern Bloc colour schemes.

[RICHARD WILLS]

Good Point . 

Ok how about this . 

As prescribed , we would scrap the retracts and keep the parts count down to the minimum . Its semi scale but still looks a treat . 54" probably about 4.5lb ! So plenty of go . 

[Eric Robson]

17 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

The only downside in certain quarters with Russian stuff is the current unpleasantness in Ukraine - there's quite a few folks chipping in online who are  either refinishing existing models, or shying away from Russian schemes and replacing them with Ukrainian or other former Eastern Bloc colour schemes.

I still get people moaning about my Luftwaffe, grunt hu! Another one of those German things.

[leccyflyer]

14 minutes ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

Good Point . 

Ok how about this . 

As prescribed , we would scrap the retracts and keep the parts count down to the minimum . Its semi scale but still looks a treat . 54" probably about 4.5lb ! So plenty of go . 

 

[leccyflyer]

Only thing I'd add is that fixed undercarriages are a deal breaker, unless it's a Stuka or Miles M20 or something which had a fixed undercarriage.  Not a fan of doughnuts dangling.

[Ron Gray]

18 minutes ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

Ok how about this

I think that hits the spot, I would certainly go for one.

[Graham Davies 3]

3 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Only thing I'd add is that fixed undercarriages are a deal breaker, unless it's a Stuka or Miles M20 or something which had a fixed undercarriage.  Not a fan of doughnuts dangling.

Yes, know what you mean.

 

My first 'bird was a 'salvage kit' from Richard of a Tempest. I built it with fixed gear so I could fly it solo on our sometime rough strip. Once I'd really nailed smooth landings (and takeoffs! These often do more damage!) I fitted old school mechanical retracts. Easy retro fit, and totally reliable

 

 

Graham

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

So perhaps the "Overlord " pairing could be  Tempest /190 ?    Both could have slightly improved noses (shorter ) thanks to modern gear and probably bias to electric power.

 

[leccyflyer]

Definitely put me down for one of those FW190 As in that size, which compared very favourably with EFlite's eye wateringly expensive 1.5m offering and is a more manageable size than Mick Reeves' old FW190D.

[RICHARD WILLS]

The 190 would have a larger more scale cowling and better shaped front end . But I think its the ease of build and flying qualities that need to be focused on . If people can be walked through a brushed finish to look like these two then , they will love the final outcome . 

Need to let that fizz for a bit to see if other like the pairing or if we have nipped up a cul de sac .

[Graham Davies 3]

10 minutes ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

So perhaps the "Overlord " pairing could be  Tempest /190 ?    Both could have slightly improved noses (shorter ) thanks to modern gear and probably bias to electric power.

 

I might be tempted to make this pair in a slightly smaller (funfighter) size for my favourite 3S 2200 pack size. I like models this size, although acccept that the 'birds look and fly better at a slightly larger scale. The reason to go 42-45" span is to fit 2 fully rigged models in the car and carry them to the strip without needing a lie down!

 

I've done a few more traditionally built models this size, and reckon a foamboard build would be lighter and easier to launch.

 

No-one has yet mentioned twins. Eric has built some absolute beauties. My Ki45 at 60" gets 4+ minutes on a single 3S 2200 pack and is honestly the easiest model to hand launch I've ever flown. It's like launching a towline glider! At this scale, it flies incredibly realistically. The build was my first foamboard job, and I've learned a lot since, but it's a great model. Easily kittable using 3D printed cowls...

 

[andrew exton]

Tempest ,Yak 3, FW190 would be nice especially the tempest 

for me personally

 

andy 

[Ron Gray]

Love the Overlord pairing. What about a Pacific pair (as opposed to coconut), Zero and Hellcat (or Corsair).

 

Personally I prefer the blue foam approach to the foamboard/Depron one, I think they look better (no disrespect to foamboard/Depron builders, can I disrespect myself?).

[leccyflyer]

I'm loving the Dogfight Double pairings too. That could really be developed over time, essentially the same models in terms of equipment, so readily interchangeable power trains and gear, but with the different shapes and finishes. A cracking concept.

 

FW190 & Tempest

Zero & Hellcat

Bf109 & Spitfire

Macchi & Thunderbolt.

[RICHARD WILLS]

I do like the pacific theme but rounded bodies of corsair and zero add issues . 

Twins could be a follow up that I also thought about . 

We do have a nice P40 option and could probably improve our old zero which was quite popular . Might be wrong but I bet the German /British combo win 

I suppose a P40 / 109 desert pair would also work .