It's such a shame

[Roger Bird]

I sent an enquiry to Richard Wills of Warbird Replicas with reference to one of his two Lavachkin LA7 kits. This was his reply:-

Despite both of the La7s having been adored and enthused over by our old customers and builders, the current lack of builders and the dominance of ARTFs means we currently only stock Spitfires and Hurricanes .

If you consider how many traditional kits were built in your club last year ,you will see what I mean.

We do have some other kits but it depends what you want.

Regards

Richard

After having a chat with Richard on the telephone I was surprised to learn just how few kits he has sold over the past few years. It's difficult to understand when his kits are held in high regard and are of good quality. I suspect this may true of other manufacturers too and is not at all the situation that I thought existed. It's such a shame.

(A review of the LA7 was done for RCM&E. A search for 'Lavochkin LA7' will bring a result.)

[SDF]

I've been away from the hobby for a few years and one of the most noticable things coming back is the lack of kits. My LMS carry none apart from a few West Wings rubber models and there seem to be very few kits advertised.

Fortunately I have a few kits stashed away but it looks like from now on if you want a traditional build the choice is going to be magazine plans or DIY designs.

[andy watson]

The Willis Warbirds LA7 was sort of on my build list- if should ever start building that big. Has the Typhoon gone as well?

Pity- only ever heard good things about them.

Did he mean Spitfires/Hurricanes are all that are kept in stock and the LA7 is available as a run of 1, or it has completely gone?

Out of interest how many kits did he sell- if he didn't tell you in confidence. I ask because I am interested- he produces a premium product which will only ever appeal to a small number of people with the cash, ability, space, time etc to build something 100"+ to a high standard. Talking with Nigel at flightline graphics (and I imagine their customer base probably overlaps a lot) he tells me he is overloaded with work (and has waiting times to match!) and says that those people at the "top end" of building (my phrase) are still as active as ever.

[Roger Bird]

Andy, I would suggest you speak to Richard himself (Warbird Replicas), he is very approachable and can obviously give you 100% accurate information. It's only the last few years the decline is so marked, some of his kits only sold in ones and two's.

The Spitfire's and Hurricane's are the only kits held in stock as far as I understand it and not a lot of those have been sold either. The Spit took an awful lot of development to get it to look and fly 'just right' by all accounts. The subject would make an interesting article don't you think?

[Area 51]

Classic case, if you spot one, buy the blighter and welcome it to the hangar assembly line.. my maximum for many a year now.. and after 90mins in the loft alone yesterday, it works very well indeed!

Seems inspite of reminders by all modelling press, the trad kits producers have their work cut out (no puns pls) to maintain a stock of what we want.. I expect the poor chap may go months without an enquiry for the LA7.. then we all form a queue!

How to overcome this issue must be nye on a black art... Let us remember, the tide always returns.. so fingers cross they have a good years trading.

[Paul Marsh]

Kits are too expensive. For example, get a kit, costs £120. Build it, cover it, add fuel tank, wheels, etc. You can buy the ARTF for £80. Apart from the satisfaction of building it, not really value for money.

There are only a couple kit builders left in this country. I was speaking to Priory Models at the Nats, and they said they hardly sell kits. I bought a Wombat off them, but that was the only kit they sold by Sunday.

[Reno Racer]

Oh drats!

That was on my to do list.

I think that the problem with this recession, I now have a bigger wish list of builds projects and ARFs, but am not spending the money I used to. My experience in the US is otherwise in relation to kits. The majority of the model in my club are kit built, mostly SIG, Great Planes, Balsa USA and Top Flite. They are cheap too. Much cheaper than the ARF version.

I agree with Paul, in the UK kits are just too expensive. It should be the case that the kit is much cheaper than the ARF versions. In the current economic climate, only when this happens will people start building again in such numbers. Simple economics.

I recenly invested in a Proxon scroll saw so I can cut my own parts and build from plans. Much cheaper than kits!

[Martin Whybrow]

I think Roger and Andy are talking at cross purposes here; Willis Warbirds, run by Chris Willis is a different company from Warbird Replicas. I wasn't aware that Chris had a Lavochkin in his kit line up.

[JC]

I have to agree. kits are too exspensive. A kit should be cheaper than the equivilent ARTF but I have found this not to be the case.

[andy watson]

Martin- you are absolutely correct, I had mixed the 2 up.

The warbird replicas LA7 was quite a bit higher up my build list then, since warbird replicas kits are more to the sort of size that are practical for normal people to build. The Willis warbirds kits are much more unlikely to happen. I don't want to build hurricanes or spitfires- every one has them. I agree 100% with Paul about kit prices.

[Peter Miller]

Pegasus Model of Norwich stock kits, Sig and Balsa USA.

Part kits as sold by the magazines are another answer or if price is the issue build from plans. Just mark out the parts and you have a kit.

Consider the wages paid to the workers in the Asian countries and the mass production techniques used. this accounts for the low cost.

On the other hand, consider the rather poor quality of the actual construction and lack of glue or careful wood selectionand even poor design in many of the ARTFs.

I have yet to see a scratch built model in out club suffer structural failure. On the other hand the number of ARTFs that have failed in flight or had serious problems in flight is disgustingly high

[Barrie Dav 2]

Why are people upset that there are fewer kit manufacturers about these days? If a person can build a kit, surely building from plans should be within their skills too. There are masses of plans to choose from out there. It's true that more time is required to cut the parts but the quality of the wood etc can be selected, whereas often this aspect of a kit can be very questionable. Also, as people have pointed out, some kits are too expensive in the U.K.

So far as ARTF etc goes it performs a function for people with little building skill , people with little time or people who just want to get into the air as quickly as possible but it is not real aeromodelling.  

Each to his own.

 

Edited By Barrie Dav 2 on 01/05/2012 08:50:14

[Olly P]

Indeed Peter - but I can still get a British made ARTF for less than a kit would set me back. I love building as much as flying, but cost wise sometimes it just isn't worth it.

Some models I will be building from plans as noone does kits or ARTF's others from kits, and others I'll buy premade.

Horses for courses, I do understand why kits seem so expensive compared to ARTF, but unfortunatly thats life!

[Ernie]

Hi Guys, I reckon that the building part of our hobby is every bit as enjoyable as the flying, so, nearly every time I will build from a kit or a plan

ernie

[Tony Bennett]

i think a lot of it is down to the modern "no patience" attitude.

If i cant do it straight away i won't bother.

my wife is the same, the number of hobbies she starts and dosn't carry on with because they

a) take too long

b) are too hard.

i know i will get flamed for posting this.

but i feel most people these days are not prepared to put the effort in to learn how to build.

dons hard hat and retires to the anderson shelter.

[Olly P]

LOL - Tony, I know where you are coming from - I do build, but can't always afford the time. I have 2 jobs, and between them and spending time with the misses and general household duties build time is often exchanged with flying time depending on the weather. This means that ARTF's have to have a place in my hanger if I want to get a decent amount of time on the sticks. BUT I am building when the rain prevents flying, as I enjoy that aspect of the hobby also.

[Bob Cotsford]

I recently completed one kit (Classic RC Hobbies 'King Altair' and I'm now building another - a Great Planes 'Super Skybolt'. The KA is a unique model, there's nothing similar available as ARTF, it's all good quality materials and it's built with real glue and the fittings were all good quality. It cost me around £200 for the airfame and gave me a lot of satisfaction in the build. It's also an easier prospect than the average ARTF should it ever need repairs.

The Skybolt is available as an ARTF - around £350 I believe - but the kit includes excellent quality wood and fittings once again, nothing to throw away or replace because it doesn't look up to the job.

I could have bought an Ultimate ARTF of similar size for a couple of hundred, but I wouldn't have the same satisfaction from it, nor the same confidence in the workmanship and materials.

Unfortunately if you want a real builders model other than a Flair bipe/tripe, you really need to look to American products.

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 01/05/2012 10:07:33

[Bob Cotsford]

&*^% editor keeps inserting a smilie!

[kc]

If you do a Google search for David P Andersen you will find details of a free download for a Lavochkin L7 about 8 foot span if thats size suits you. Cowls etc are avail in USA.
Plans are also avail at a cost from RCM plans.
These are beautiful scale plans from a top designer. And free to download!

[Roger Bird]

I have the David Anderson plans kc, thanks. I also have some from RBC Warbirds who's plans are nearer the size I am interested in.

I didn't really want this post to develop into a bit of a kit v ARTF brawl but I suppose it was inevitable. The plight of our kit manufacturer's is mirrored throughout our country (UK) so I suppose I shouldn't have been suprised.

On a personal level, I would much rather have the pleasure of building and flying rather than just flying. I would much rather develop modelling and engineering skills than pop down to the LMS. If I smash a model up (all to frequently - rubbish pilot), I can usually fix it or re-use most of the parts and I have had the pleasure of the build. I do tend not to spent to much time on titivation for obvious reasons.

It's all personal I suppose, each to their own, it's the diversity that makes this hobby so much fun.

[Ernie]

Woopee Tony, You won't need a hard hat here

ernie

[Steve W-O]

It is a pity, but to me it is simply a matter of exorbitant prices, for example, how can anyone justify spending £106 on the clean sweep kit at the top of this page?

You still have to find all the bits and pieces, and the covering if you buy it in the UK will cost a fortune.

But I don't see it as a problem, it just means a little extra time cutting out, and before long laser cutters will be within reach of the home builder. They are tempting at the moment, but delivery is almost as much as the cutter.

I recently built a kit (the Beguine) and to be honest, it was hardly any more of an achievement than assembling the Mentor, where you have to glue the two halves of the fuselage together.

Building from a plan and cutting it all out is good though.