john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 If we're having a predict i'll try Hulkenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 The more I think about it, the more attractive Jenson seems. I seem to remember he out qualified Lewis over a season, deals with Lewis's forceful behaviour and moves, by responding, by not giving way, rather forcing Lewis of the track or backing of, before he can get in position to overtake, then responds very calmly, with what was he thinking? Yes, Jenson, a very underrated driver and extremely talented. Although I have been impressed with Kimi, he seems to be on the ball again, not quite as good as Vettel, but in the right car, well he would beat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbubba Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Jenson is under contract with Mclaren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbubba Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 All the names being bandied around are dinosaurs, mercedes need some youth in the team. They already have Ocon and Wehrlein on the Mercedes driver programme, they are there for a reason. They have one of the best drivers ever in their car, they need a younger driver to learn and one day take over. They don't want another 30+ year old who is going to leave the same time as LH. Wehrlein is a great driver who has qualified very well in a poor car. He even managed to finish a Manor in 10th place out of 17 cars in Austria. Let's also not forget, he was last years DTM champion, he is a great driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Bubba, you have said it yourself, Mercedes, as all the other teams, need to develop their cars. As you have suggested, experienced drivers tend to be higher on this area of their abilities. Youth is great, at some things,yet experience an knowledge often comes with being around for some time. Non of us, i would think have an insight into the mind and thinking of Mercedes. Although, from what has been said, horsepower matters. Mercedes have the edge here. Some of the hack type test drivers, for the bits and pieces, seem to think, that the aero component, just enable the cars to lap even faster. The changes apparently are not the step change of the recent years, even though billed as such. But I do know, i haven't the foggiest idea what the upper echelons are thinking over this present conundrum. Is this the time to let Lewis go and get a good understudy for the future. Is this the time to consolidate with Lewis and get some one not as experienced and so on. A lot depends on how dependable they think Lewis actually is and how he will inter act with another driver, younger or more experienced. His behaviour over the years and recent lack of commitment would have me a little concerned, but then I would worry, would a replacement be any more manageable, or even do more damage to the brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Lewis is getting a partner whether he likes them or not, the best drivers are spoken for, Nico has left them with a big problem. The list of available drivers is a very short list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 All those promising drivers who signed a new contract in the last month or so must be kicking themselves to have signed up for lesser teams already! Magnusson, Palmer, etc Those who have just retired through lack of a good drive ( Massa, Button ) may be having second thoughts. And there are many good drivers in GP2 who would expect a chance in F1 next year. Remember that when Hamilton came into F1 there was a big change in tyre regulations and he benefitted from NOT having experience of the old cars. Could happen in 2017. Most open season for a long time. As far as I can see Nico Rosberg has never had a serious injury in racing so probably his retirement was to some extent motivated by Bianchi's accident and the thought that you cannot push your luck forever and get away with it. Let's hope he enjoys his retirement. What do you do with the next 40 years if you retire at 31? He needs a good hobby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I considered retiring at 30, thought i'd achieved all i could, but International Harvester thought otherwise n i carried on welding Yep good luck to Nico, he's been one of the gentlemen, beautiful wife n family, loads of money, he''ll be fine John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I guess an important question will be, is how much time is available to sign and have available the second driver. Is there any pressure to be quick? I have been given the impression that all the individual aspects of the rule changes have been investigated and tested in various ways. On that basis i am assuming that the cars are, or have been designed, and probably exist in some form. So I guess one of the constraints is when can they legitimately be put on a track, as the race car, prior to the often quoted pre-season collective team testing? How beneficial is having the actual driver available, rather than the test drivers? What is easily forgotten that for Mercedes and Renault, this is all about selling cars, via association, that often mentioned product image, etc. On that basis it is not only about winning, it is winning well, in the eyes of the demographic groupings. Sponsors are probably less important in the equation, than for many teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Posted by Erfolg on 03/12/2016 13:07:53: So I guess one of the constraints is when can they legitimately be put on a track, as the race car, prior to the often quoted pre-season collective team testing? How beneficial is having the actual driver available, rather than the test drivers? And on that point, given the very limited amount of testing permitted these days, what exactly do the test drivers do? And how often do they actually get to drive? In fact, do they even call them test drivers these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Webb Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Whilst I like Nico Rosberg, and I congratulate him on his win, my gut feeling about this retirement announcement from Nico is ......."Chicken" He seems to be chickening out of another year fighting Lewis. That was my initial thought. I wonder if I am right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 "Undefeated champion" has a certain ring to it. Not allowing anyone to challenge his championship does seam a bit of an easy way out. It is his choice though and nobody can doubt that he won it fairly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 John I am not familiar with what the rules actually specify. What I do know is that a lot of track testing still takes place of things like brakes in vehicles that are not actually the race car, although some aspects are apparently arguably the same. The bits of kit are being used by others than the team drivers. Just hours of testing to a regime to imitate a working environment. Apparently rather repetitious, although the driver is monitored to ensure that they keep on the limit. In cases where there is definite benefit of using the race drivers, apparently, sponsors days are used, as we all recognise, just to please the sponsors.So I have been told. Then there are apparently tests that take place for suppliers, such as tyre suppliers etc. So that they have confirmation that the tyre performs as required. I am getting the impression that the situation has some outcomes as with "blue printing" had on rally cars to reduce costs. Rather than the items being used coming from the parts bin, they are specifically made to ensure that the item is optimal, yet within the specs as used for normal car production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Whats the chances of Massa coming back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Posted by iqon on 03/12/2016 16:45:38: Whats the chances of Massa coming back.... About as much chance as you beating me next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Webb Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Wow....so Massa is coming back then John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbubba Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Posted by Erfolg on 03/12/2016 16:18:47: John I am not familiar with what the rules actually specify. Ferrari tested their power units in a La Ferrari body, all well within the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Don't encourage him (Iqon not Massa) he gloats when he whups me, i would never stoop so low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbubba Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Posted by John Privett on 03/12/2016 13:50:50: Posted by Erfolg on 03/12/2016 13:07:53: So I guess one of the constraints is when can they legitimately be put on a track, as the race car, prior to the often quoted pre-season collective team testing? How beneficial is having the actual driver available, rather than the test drivers? And on that point, given the very limited amount of testing permitted these days, what exactly do the test drivers do? And how often do they actually get to drive? In fact, do they even call them test drivers these days? They are less test drivers and more reserve drivers. They are there in case the team drivers are not available for any reason, such as when Massa had his eye injury, Luca Badoer stood in for him. The reserve driver as they are actually called also does many of the press appearances with the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbubba Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Posted by Erfolg on 03/12/2016 00:29:06: Bubba, you have said it yourself, Mercedes, as all the other teams, need to develop their cars. As you have suggested, experienced drivers tend to be higher on this area of their abilities. Cars get developed mainly in simulation, the days of doing 1000 laps to develop a car are long gone. Testing is last minute and is more for set up analysis and tyre degradation information rather than car development. Verstappen has shown that it is possible for inexperienced drivers to go straight into a top car and perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 It's Valtteri Bottas then, he's looked the part at times, hope he get into his groove quickly and gives Lewis a run for it. Felipe back to Williams as well, he looked like he'd lost the desire to me, hope it doesn't go badly for him. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Holland 2 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just seen pictures of the 2017 Merc. Pretty tasty. Going to be an interesting year, I think. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Not just the Mercs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 If you look through the various press releases there are quite a number of team whose cars have been presented, or information made available, although at least one seems to be more about PR, as the car is not as yet finished. It is the descriptions of the impact of the rule changes on the design concepts that I find particularly interesting. For me it is to early to guess if the changes are significant enough, to suggest that last years cars are not a reliable guide to the coming seasons. Although the reading suggests that the changes are significant enough to indicate that last years aerodynamic forms, need more than a little tweaking. Also the location of various components may need relocation to conform to some requirements of the regs, in some cases due to the required geometrical cross sectional requirements, Some engine manufactures are now claiming parity with their rivals, although i would guess that this again is PR, as I am not aware that any comparable information on the latest generation engines of rivals will be known, with any level of certainty. I also read that there is a call for the return of some form of active suspension. Apparently as some of last years suspension systems had electronically controlled aspects, this rule change it is claimed will remove some of the ambiguity of what is permitted and that which clearly breaches present regulations. In the case of Valtteri Bottas, it must be a little disconcerting to have a 1 year contract, where some drivers have had multiple year contracts. I guess until you become a World Champion, that is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I hope the changes have shook things up a bit, but good teams win for the same reasons changes or not, Renault are sounding pretty bullish about their engine and Honda are saying "we don't know" Ferrari..who knows ? I expect the Mercs to be given a better fight by the Redbull lads. And no Bernie this year. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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