2014 Mass Build - Discussion about model choices

[Colin Leighfield]

After this year I'm keen to have another go. I'm cautious though about introducing any competitive element such as a race. I think that many people who might otherwise be interested would be frightened by this. I'm certainly not keen and it might introduce an element of risk that you don't want to see at a Fly-in. The Tucano was a good choice I think yet despite its' relative simplicity as designed it was surprising how few that seemed to get started actually came to fruition or turned up at Greenacres.

Perhaps we should take another look at the Whizza or even the Fizza, although I'll think a bit more about it before I make any suggestion. I'm inclined to think that we need to stay relatively small, low cost and simple with a degree of expendability, However, others might have a different point of view.

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

Cheap and cheerful? did the mighty Whitaker have a free plan out this year of such a beast? or am I thinking of something else?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think Colin is right. An E2k maybe great fun to race for some - but it would but a lot of less experienced (or simply more,.... mature shall we say!) fliers off.

I've noticed that a lot of builders are already a bit shy of flying at the Fly in at the end - which is a great pity because it is just that a fly-in, no stress - if there was racing we'd put even more off!

BEB

[Concorde Speedbird]

Admittedly the racing idea was taken from an extract of another one of the ideas in my mad head, not intended for mass build.

But the Jester is a superb aeroplane (my favourite!), as are the rest of the Pegasus kits at that. It would be nice to not have another RCME plan this year, and most of the people participating will have done the last 1 or 2, so something a bit more challenging would be better in my opinion.

CS

[kevin b]

What about something along the lines of Scamp & Little Fokker from the 2011 Special Edition. Maybe a bit bigger (800mm span), or even a biplane, but something which could be built in a variety of schemes (or alliances) and use i/c electric or even rubber power !

kevinb.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

In my opinion the mass build is and always will be to help firt time builders.
It's really not in the spirit of building together, if folk pick a model that they already have, with no intention of building another.
This is the forum arm of RCM&E so an RCM&E plan just seems the natural thing to do.

So my suggestion, which may be a little premature is this.

I'm obviously making many assumptions, but if this Rich Harris design flies anything like the Whizzza, and if by some chance it's published as a plan, then maybe, just maybe, it will appear in the mag at the right time?
Maybe there could be a kit of parts, and almost certainly, no one will already have one..

Having said all that, I think it would be very difficult to get it all in place in time.

[Chris Poulton]

I've stopped rc flying recently and can't see myself flying again for the next 2-3 years, but don't mind spending an hour or two in the workshop now and then. My choice would be......doh......Martyn's Curare 25 as long as somebodydoes a short or full kit of it.

[Colin Leighfield]

I think that Chris Bott's suggestion of the Slingshot is on the right lines. A shoulder wing lay-out has the benefit of easy hand launching as well.

[John F]

How about a Peter Miller Volksplane or an Agri Duck? The Agri Duck is sure ugly but fun to fly.

[Richard Harris]

Why does it have to be a mass build? why not throw in a mass design and build where we all get to throw ideas in.

We first decide on:

Layout...........mono plane, biplane,canard,gyro,delta,flying wing etc

Then...

Size and possible power plants

Then

Materials to be used

Construction....ribbed wing, sheet profiled wing etc

Once decided I would be more than happy to draw away a design and upload drawings, alter to suit as we go along as people add there 2 pence worth?

Maybe even at the end it could get publish as the modelflying forums mass designed model and any procedes donated to charity? maybe local to Greenacres?

It would be 'ours' then.

Rich

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

I like the sound of that Rich. Assuming we could actually get a concensus, that's a great idea.

[Erfolg]

Perhaps a "Sligshot", redesigned a little larger, with a built up wing, made available as a free-plan. I think the original has a shaped plank of balsa wing? That is if RH could be persuade?

Or maybe PM, could design a simple model "D" Gee Bee, again as a free plan. I am thinking that the body is essentially a box. Even the wing is essentially a constant chord, with fancy tips. The aircraft had a lot of character, and some striking paint jobs.

The span is a bit of a conundrum in my mind. As an electric flier, I have liked my models quite small, by IC standards. Now flying at a mixed discipline in that electric, IC, planes and helicopters are flown. I have noted that IC modellers like larger models, relative to me. Also electric fliers from an IC background also like larger models. As electric models, this tends to require Lipos which are larger than 2200, 3s batteries which are common with smaller models. The down side is that the larger models require an investment, in both time, money and equipment, which can easily be daunting, especially for casual and novice modellers.

[Devcon1]

How about a Cassutt Special or one of it's variants.

It offers a little bit to all I think, fairly simple ro build ( methinks) electric option looks Ok with a removeable top deck, mid wing offering flying to a range of abilities, different control setups to suit flying skills and the ability to model a number of different schemes and markings.

Regards

John

[Danny Fenton]

Just to add some more ideas, DB sport and scale do a plan pack for a 40" and a 54" Tinker biplane, nice flyer the 40" is £23 for the plan and all the ribs. The 54" is £26 No cabanes or struts.

The 40"

the 54"

Just a thought and to add variety to the suggestions so far

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 17/09/2013 21:36:04

[Devcon1]

Sorry forget to add alink...

Cassutt Special

[Richard Harris]

Posted by Chris Bott - Moderator on 17/09/2013 20:27:12:

I like the sound of that Rich. Assuming we could actually get a concensus, that's a great idea.

 

Chris,

Easily sorted by gathering everyones ideas for that particular feature, then pulling it out of a hat, we could take turns in doing this so everyone gets a chance?

Example....wing shape = swept back, delta, eliptical, constant cord, tapered on LE,tapered on TE, radius on LE tip etc

Wing position = low wing, high wing,mid wing, parasol, biplane,triplane, canard etc

 

Tail= Tee tail, vee tail, standard tail onvtop line of fuselage, standard tail mid point of fuselage, lower tailplane etc

 

Fuselage shape= box, profile, open frame, stringered, sanded round, triangular etc

Example of the many combinations possible....

Pulled out of the hat =eliptical low winged, tee tail, stringered fuselage

 

 

Rich

 

 

Edited By Richard Harris on 17/09/2013 22:06:04

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Guys remember, the Mass Build is what you want it to be. But it's original motivation, and the motivation every year so far, has been simply to increase the number of folks getting some experience of actually building and flying a model.

Many people will say that they would love to build, but are worried about "taking the first step", or are unsure they have the right tools, or are frightened about "getting stuck" at some point. The idea of the Mass Build is to overcome all that by providing a "community of builders", some experienced, some less so, some with no experience. By all posting blogs we solve the problems together and hopefully everyone ends up with a flyable model they can be proud of - and those new to building perhaps get a fillup to their confidence that makes then contemplate having a further go at building on their own, building on the positive experience, and so we expand the number of modellers enjoying this aspect of the hobby.

To make this work we need a nice inclusive model - one that is buildable with minimum tools and facilities - the sort of tools someone who has assembled a few ARTF's would have. Of course the ideal choice would also offer scope for the more experienced to expand on the theme, enhancing the model and adding new features maybe - but not at the cost of destroying the basic build sequence of the model.

Now if we are to convince folks to "take a punt" here we need a model that is cheap - so there is not too much at stake. That uses the sort of power train you might have laying around from an earlier model - or could buy fairly cheaply. It has to be possible to make it in electric and IC versions.

So, throw ideas around here by all means - nothing is ruled "out" - but please try to ask yourself "does my suggestion fit the basic requirements?"

Also don't forget - if you want your idea to go forward for consideration is would really help if you don't just mention and discuss it here - we'd like you to actually propose it in a one line post here.

Cheers

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 17/09/2013 23:40:58

[pensioners1938]

Brilliant Video Danny, thanks for posting the link.

Cheers Eric.

[Bob Cotsford]

Two ideas so far would get my interest:

1) E2K - these make excellent easy to fly sports models and are relatively simple to build. Those who were so inclined could have an informal or formal race but that shouldn't be a requirement of the build. A couple of clubmates are flying Gonzales which was a free plan in a.n.other mag, something along those lines would fit the bill on bog standard 3S 2200 setups.

2) Tinker Bipes - quick and easy to build, honours the great Boddo, ic or electric and cheap as chips.

[Andy Green]

Just registering to keep track on whats going on.

Andy

[David Davis]

I would like to make a pitch for Eric Clutton's Sharkface or its more modern equivalent, the Sharkfish. There are two sets of plans for the Sharkface in the RCM&E listings: the original (Code: RC 887) and Gordon Counsell's later variant (Code: MAG 13.) Both the Sharkface and Sharkfish are also on the Outerzone.

I'm sure we could persuade a kit cutter to knock out some kits for a fair price. They are both very small, only 22 inches in the span so they won't be expensive and they shouldn't take long to build. They have sheet fuselages and tail surfaces so they're very simple models. While they are not perhaps for the novice pilot, they may be fitted with a wide variety of i/c engines or electric motors and depending upon what you fit, could be made to fly like a pylon racer or in a more docile manner.

By adopting the Sharkfish people have a number of choices:

1. To build the model as a single channel flyer.
2. To build as a three channel model.
3. To build it as the four-channel Sharkfish variant.
4. And to power it by either an electric motor or an i/c engine.

I regret that my inadequate computer skills prevent me from inserting a picture. Those more skillful in this area please feel free to do so.

[Erfolg]

David

The span at 22" seems a little small to me. Perhaps something like 1.5 would be better, stretched to 36" or thereabouts.

The other issue I would have is the exaggerated downthrust, I assume to make a essentially overpowered single channel model, fly in a mostly flat climb.

In many respects it seems very similar to the pylon racer a previous contributor suggests. Although the (electric? If it is the one I have seen) pylon racer is already optimised to current radio operating methods.

I guess either would work, although I would prefer a sport/pylon racer.

[Colin Leighfield]

Taking into account BEB's advice and trying to assimilate all of the different ideas coming across, I think the Fizza is a great candidate. Cheap and easy enough to build, looks the part, tame on a modest power train and goes like a rocket if you want to power it up, seems to have the ingredients to me. I'm not ready to vote yet though, I'm still listening to everyone else! From memory it's about 36" span, or close to it with plenty of wing area.

[Erfolg]

Will Mr Ashby producing one of famous survey/votes of candidate models, so that there can be some indication of support for particular models.

[Colin Leighfield]

Correction to my previous about the Fizza, dodgy memory. It's 32" span, not 36", but the low aspect ratio wing with swept l.e. has got no vices, it slows right down without any tip stall. Big enough without being tiny, chuck it in the car boot, no problem. If I carry on like this, I might persuade myself to vote for it!