Airline travel with Li-Po's

[dodgy raptor]

Can any one give me some guidance on taking Li Po batteries on board aircraft. I am thinking of taking my T Rex 500 on my annual pilgrimage to Corfu this year. The reason I ask is that last year a fellow visitor had his batteries confiscated at Bristol Airport, despite showing the security people the latest CAA guidlines, which suggested it was safe to do so provided that the packaging conformed to their criteria.

I suppose I could always send them ahead via surface post, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Pete B]

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum! As you can see, I've started a new thread on this subject - should attract a greater response.

I have no experience myself but I've read elsewhere that airline procedure can be variable, although it seems that travelling with Li-Po packs in a cabin bag satisfies most. Packing them in your hold baggage is a no-no.

Perhaps a call to your intended carrier - requesting some written confirmation to show at check-in - might be advisable?

Pete

[Paul Marsh]

I suppose you could take your model over-minus batteries and either buy them over there or send them to an address prior.

You could use them and after use, offer them for sale, or post them to your home, using the proper procedures.

[Danny Fenton]

Welcome to the forum John. I too would be interested to hear about this for when I venture abroad with my models.

A bit off subject, but to do with models shipping via air lines I know Richard Crapp and Dave Toyer had their Top Gun Models turned away at check in, despite getting clearance for the oversized cargo to go on board before they flew. To their credit they still went, and what's more, purchased a second hand model from a shop in Florida and flew anyway!

Cheers

Danny

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I would definitely contact the carrier. We have to transport stuff to meetings overseas for work occassionally - stuff people would not normally carry with them! We have always contacted the carrier - ref the CAA regulation in your email to them, in a friendly and helpful way of course " I notice...blah blah,...and i wonder if you could confirm...blah blah" - and its fine 9 times out of 10.

BEB

[Phil 9]

I carried lipos in hand luggage on a UK domestic flight. I taped up the connectors with electrical tape.

I had to answer a lot of questions about them at check in but I was allowed to take them on I had 3 or 4 2200 3c batteries.

[Pete B]

This link seems to provide current CAA rules. Li-Po's are treated as lithium-ion batteries. Not sure what packs you use on the Trex 500 but by way of example, a 5S 3000mAh pack has a watt-hour rating of 55.5, so well within the 100wh limit.

It does make clear that you should contact the airline first: Passengers must contact their airline in advance to gain approval when planning to travel with certain types of dangerous goods as indicated below.

No mention of a limit to the number you can carry - 10kg's worth, I suppose.....

Pete

[avtur]

Any airline you travel with from the UK is almost certainly going to be a member of IATA (International Air Transport Association) so I think you'll find it is IATA guidelines that are likely to rule the day. Sadly there have been some high profile losses (in the air freight business) which have made the airlines particularly sensitive; at least two aircraft lost as a result of Lipo cargo catching fire. And most recently there has been all the well documented problems with the Boeing 787.

I've found the following on the IATA website (contained in a document titled: Lithium Batteries – Significant Changes on the Way) the wording in this statement implies it was written some time ago as it talks about changes in Jan 2009 in the future tense. Clearly the 'spirit' of this regulation refers to accessory batteries or spare batteries being similar to OEM equipment and I would venture to suggest that our 'hobby style' Lipo packs probably sit a little outside this description; with casings and flexible leads being the most significant differences 

" 8. Lithium batteries in passenger baggage
Passengers are permitted to carry onboard aircraft consumer electronic devices (watches, calculating machines, cameras,
cellular phones, lap-top computers, camcorders, etc.) containing lithium metal and lithium ion batteries and spare lithium ion
batteries for personal use. From 1 January 2009, the Regulations will recommend that these devices should be in carry-on
baggage rather than in checked baggage.
There will also be a change for spare batteries. Spare batteries must be individually protected to prevent short circuits by
placement in the original retail packaging or by otherwise insulating terminals, e.g. by taping over exposed terminals or
placing each battery in a separate plastic bag or protective pouch. Spare lithium batteries must be in carry-on baggage, and
are forbidden in a passenger’s checked baggage.
The limits applied to lithium ion batteries in passenger baggage will also be revised from lithium equivalent to Watt-hours.
The standard limit for lithium ion batteries installed in consumer electronic equipment or carried as spares will be a rating of
100 Wh. "

I'll do a bit more digging and see if I can turn up anything more recent.

 

Edited By avtur on 18/11/2013 18:30:40

[dodgy raptor]

Thanks to everyone who has responded, this is my first post and I am most impressed. Quite honestly, I think the present situation must be resolved, Royal Mail will no longer handle Lithium Polymer batteries, but today I had a delivery of 3 X 6s 5000 batteries delivered by no less than Parcel Force!, what a shambles!

I look forward to more posts.

[John Privett]

It is odd, isn't it! Royal Mail put all sorts of exclusions on posting Lithium batteries, yet Parcelforce (whose website clearly states "Parcelforce Worldwide is a trading name of Royal Mail Group Ltd" ) seem happy, at the moment anyway, to transport them...

And welcome aboard, John!

Edited By John Privett on 18/11/2013 18:56:09

[avtur]

Here is what I believe to be the most up to date document from IATA ...

It's quite a 'comprehensive' document but there are a number of references to what passenger can carry, including a personal limit of 5kg per person.

This may be starting to look quite draconian but please remember these regs have be updated as a result of aircraft incidents including fatal crashes. I have worked in the aviation fuel industry for many years, there is a saying which relates to many aspects of aircraft operation "there are no lay-bys at 35,000 ft", if something starts to go wrong you can't pull over and investigate. Thats why the fuel game is so interesting ... making sure the fuel is clean and dry to do its job properly. 

Anyway, here's the link ...

IATA link

sorry it's taken a while I had to remind myself how to create the link !

 

Edited By avtur on 18/11/2013 19:40:30

[David P Williams]

If it's the RC Hotel you're going to in Corfu John, I'm sure you could reach an agreement with Spiros to use his batteries when you get there. There is also a guy who drives a van out there every month carrying 'stuff' who many of the regular RC Hotel attendees use for shipping their models to and fro. Again, I'm sure Spiros will help.

David

[dodgy raptor]

Thanks David, I had a word with Hermes Couriers yesterday, they are quite happy to transport these batteries. It would cost about £25 each way to ship 3 6s X 3000 cells and take around 3 days. Last time we went to the RC hotel there were only 3 batteries available to use between Spiros customers and guests, so flying would be pretty limited. I will ask Spiros about the "man with a van" it may be worth while.

Thanks Again.

[Simon B]

Royal Mail will carry Li-Po batteries, but they must be packaged suitably, rather than just put in a jiffy bag.

[John Privett]

Royal Mail's info on restricted goods for personal (not business) customers gives details of how lithium ion/polymer batteries can be sent, either installed in an electronic device, or accompanying one.

However they then say; Lithium ion/polymer batteries sent in isolation are prohibited. There is then a link to their "Prohibited items" list.

[Stuart C]

A couple of year's ago I travelled Etihad to Manila. My suitcase was full of air-cargo horribles - viz: Transmitter, two receivers, 35C lipos x 2, Lion for cam corder, sheets of balsa and cement, snakes, sheets of ali and two pulse jets. I phoned ahead and asked where I stood, to be informed that the balsa cement was not allowed! True to their word, it all arrived - but I made a mistake of buying some strawberry jam at LHR duty free - which got conviscated in Abu Dabi. On arrival in the Philippines, I checked the voltages of the lipos to find that they had risen from 14.8 to 16.8. Could this have been due to the different ambient temperatures (20F to 86F)? Whatever, I find it hard to believe that lipos are ever accepted by international carriers. Yup, all lipos and strawberry jams should go on-deck, hazardous cargo, sea freight.

Edited By Stuart Coyle on 19/11/2013 22:15:00

[chris larkins]

I work for a major UK low cost airline and the policy on Lithium batteries has changed on a fairly regular basis, as mentioned above by far the best way to go is to seek prior approval from your airline and preferably backed up by an email that you could hand to check-in/security/crew if any problems arise. The very latest guidelines that we are working to are below, this may be differ for other airlines. The batteries are permitted in carry-on baggage and on one's person but are not allowed in the hold. The difficulty could be in finding out and then proving how many grams of lithium content are in each battery, no limit on 8 grams or less then a limit of 2 between 8-25 grams then nothing allowed over 25grams

Consumer electric devices containing lithium or lithium ion cells or batteries,
such as watches, calculating machines, cameras, cellular phones, lap-top
computers, camcorders, etc., when carried by passengers or crew for personal
use. Spare batteries must be individually protected to prevent short circuits
and carried in carry-on baggage only. In addition, each spare battery must not
exceed the following quantities:
a) for lithium metal or lithium alloy batteries, a lithium content of less than 2 g:
or b) for lithium ion batteries, an aggregate equivalent lithium content of less
than 8 g Lithium ion batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of
more than 8 g but not more than 25 g may be carried in carry-on baggage if
they are individually protected so as to prevent short circuits and are limited to
two spare batteries per person.
  

[Pete B]

It would help if the carriers settled on one standard of measurement

Here is a PDF with an simple instructions for calculating WH or Lithium content which you might find useful....

Pete

[Piers Bowlan]

Lithium batteries (ion or polymer) carried by passengers and crew as carry on baggage must be for Portable Electron Devises (cameras, phones. computers etc.) and must be OEM which are tested and certificated (not copies or fakes). Therefore regardless of their Watt /Hour rating they are not allowed on passenger aircraft either as hand luggage or manifested cargo. No LiPos are allowed as checked-in baggage. So, no, you can't legally take your LiPos with you on an aeroplane. Link here.

As you can't take glow fuel either that just leaves a glider to take with you on your hols -as long as the Rx pack is not a LiPo!

[kc]

I would be much happier travelling on an airline that banned Lipos! Having seen a clubmate have an unconnected Lipo catch fire in the boot of his parked car -nobody knows why- I wouldnt even want to have been driving along in a car let alone in a plane when that happened.

[avtur]

Posted by kc on 20/11/2013 19:31:56:
I would be much happier travelling on an airline that banned Lipos! Having seen a clubmate have an unconnected Lipo catch fire in the boot of his parked car -nobody knows why- I wouldnt even want to have been driving along in a car let alone in a plane when that happened.

Thanks 'kc' I was waiting for someone to say that ... I couldn't agree more!

[dodgy raptor]

Royal Mail get dafter, our postie has just delivered 3 X 6s 3000 batteries from Hobby King UK warehouse!

[Bill_B]

Posted by kc on 20/11/2013 19:31:56:
I would be much happier travelling on an airline that banned Lipos!

So that means no one would be allowed to take on board a mobile phone, laptop (some have huge capacity batteries), tablet, watch or anything else that used a Lithium battery?

I don't think such a blanket ban would be workable as too many people rely on such devices and the airlines very much want their business.

[Bill_B]

Further to Piers post, I think that a LiPo for a small glider (say, 450mAh 2s) shouldn't be a problem, especially if it was isolated as per the guidelines and also put into a LiPo safe bag.

[avtur]

Posted by Bill_B on 23/11/2013 09:15:35:

Posted by kc on 20/11/2013 19:31:56:
I would be much happier travelling on an airline that banned Lipos!

So that means no one would be allowed to take on board a mobile phone, laptop (some have huge capacity batteries), tablet, watch or anything else that used a Lithium battery?

No that it is not what it means. The rules clearly state (please see the link posted by myself and others to the IATA document) that OEM batteries for typical electrical devices such as phones, laptops, cameras etc ARE permissible in carry on baggage.

What the rules are seeking to identify and control is anything none standard/OEM, for example model flight LiPo packs. Two aspects of model flight LiPo packs which do not meet requirements are that the cells are not contained within an outer casing which can withstand a specified drop test and that there should be no external leads and contacts.

Even a small LiPo pack (450mAh 2S) if poorly maintained and/or handled would be cable of starting a fire in the worst of circumstances. I don't want to spoil anyones fun but given the potential for problems with model LiPo packs I think it is appropriate that they are not allowed in passenger carry on baggage.

Edited By avtur on 23/11/2013 23:06:13