How easy is the TN Lysander to fly?

[Nigel Day]

I'm looking for my second build and fly project. Building is the most important part to me and i don't really care whether i turn out to be decent flyer or not.

I'm nearly at the end of my first build (and yet to fly), a Junior 60. I asked elsewhere about my second build being a low wing trainer (actually suggested the Tucano) and several people suggested a second high-winger first.

The Lysander's not exactly a trainer but might it make a sensible move from the Junior 60 from a flight/learning standpoint?

Thanks in advance.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

No Nigel I would recommend against this. Just because a model has a high wing that doesn't mean is trainer material! There are several other factors to take into account. The Lynsander has rather pointed wings and, if the one I've seen flown recently is anything to go by, quite viscous stall characteristics. Its a long way from a Junior 60 believe me.

The Junior 60 has particularly gentle flying characteristics. If you are looking for a look build that will offer a nice challenge but not be silly what about say a DB Barnstormer? Very traditional build, lots being built on here as part of the 2014 Mass Build so plenty of advice and encouragement available. Its a fairly aerobatic model - without being extreme or difficult to fly.

BEB

[Paul Marsh]

No, the Lysander is not a trainer- in fact one of the hardest models to fly and tip stalls nastily.

I test flew someone's at the club last year - was finished nicely, flew like a dog. Ok at higher speeds, as soon as I slowed down, it would try to flick in, and although managed a 10 min flight, when I came in for landing, at half power, she stalled and went straight in.

Also, it's quite tricky to build, being a funny shaped wing and totally built-up fuselage. I suggest if you fancy building a scale model, how about the Sig Taube? I've got the .40 sized one, and only needs three channels and flies well, Got the bigger one, also and going to build that.

So forget the Lizzy, for the next 6 years, anyway...

Edited By Paul Marsh on 13/12/2013 12:47:26

[Nigel Day]

Thanks BEB, Paul.

That's knocked the Lysander on the head then.

It looked a really good build project but I can see that the flying's a complete non-starter.

Advice much appreciated.

[Noel Eaton]

I wish I'd known this before I bought my Lysander kit,

Anyone want to buy an untouched Lysander kit ,plan ,wood kit and all spats and cowling mouldings,

I'm looking to build my first balsa model ,having done my "A" test on a now well battle scarred fleet of foamies

I really don't want to put so much time and love into a model that's going to become a bag of match wood so quickly,

I got mine precisely because I thought it would be a good high wing slow floater ,they were renowned for thier superb slow flight and STOL capability weren't they ?

so how come the model is so different ?

I'll monitor this thread and see what you eventually decide on as your build project Nigel

 

**edited for language**

Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 13/12/2013 14:29:56

[David Davis]

The strangely shaped wings can't do much for lift. The original aircraft had all sorts of flappery to help with slow flight which doesn't translate into a model which flies well. As with most models, the bigger they are the better they fly so one built from the Dennis Bryant plan might be a better of more expensive option.

I won't be building one, I know my limitations as a pilot but frankly I wouldn't recommend any scale model as a second model, they're likely to be too fragile.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

nigel

you may not want to agree but your next step is a purpose built trainer. loads on market, 25- 40 size.

£40- £70. i.c or electric. something that will cope with a bit of wind. unless you have a good stock of balsa, covering etc, you cant build one as cheap. learn to fly, stock up on balsa etc at next years shows. if budgets tight this is your best option. building your own is magic, flying them is even better.

[Tim C]

Looking at TN's specs for the Lysander his 34oz/sq ft Wing loading is a flying brick, needs to shed several pounds at that scale to any hope of matching the originals STOL characteristics

[Paul Marsh]

I'm a fully confident pilot, and can fly anything, in any weather, but the 52 powered Lysander which I flew was one of the hardest and least favourite to fly. I flew a Dynaflite Spitfire as my 2nd model, and never crashed that, and even 20 odd years later still fly it, and it was my first proper kit build.

Give me a Cassut, Edge 540 or Cap 232 any day.

[John Laverick]

Nigel, not flew mine yet (and by the sound of it I'm not gonna chance it) but I can give you a pointer on the build, Hugely enjoyable but quite complicated for a first build, I've built the TN Lanc, FW 190, and the Spit. the Lysander is by far and away a more difficult build than those three. Agree totally with everyone else, get a few under you belt first

Good luck

 

John

Edited By John Laverick on 13/12/2013 16:54:46

[Masher]

What's that old saying?................ if it looks like it will fly................

Sorry but this doesn't look like it will fly!

[kc]

Look at the DB Sport & Scale website for their Plan Packs....plans and ribs at reasonable prices. All are Boddington designs and are known to fly well. Several of them are in the Mass Build this winter so plenty of advice and encouragement will be online on Modelflying.

[Nigel Day]

Thanks John KC.

Looks like it's a Barnstomer 72 for me this time then.

[Allan Bennett]

I can vouch for the vicious tip stall, but don't recall seeing any mention of it in the original build threads. After rebuilding, I don't try to slow down to scale speed, and I keep a small amount of flaps dialled in to effectively give a bit more washout.

[Ernie]

Come on Guys, I've got one thats nearly finished, but you're giving me enormous doubts.

I can see from the general layout that it can't be a pussycat to fly, but I don't remember anything like this in Tony Ns original description or the huge build thread

ernie

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Hi Ernie. The chap in this video seems to be having lots of fun with his.

[Ernie]

Hi Chris, great stuff....back to the rivets on the cowl.

ernie

[Noel Eaton]

I've JUST BEEN WATCHING A FEW VIDEOS OF VARIOUS makes of MODELS OF LYSANDERS IN FLIGHT ,

I NOTICE THAT THEY all SEEM TO BE FLOWN QUITE FAST AND THAT LANDINGS ARE ALL QUITE FAST TOO ,THERE WAS NOT ONE EXAMPLE OF A "SCALE" SLOW stol LANDING THAT I COULD FIND

tHERES A PARTICULARLY INTERESTING VIDEO ON UTUBE (SORRY I DONT KNOW HOW TO DO THE "LINKS"

Ooops I don't know how to type either ! SOrRy aBout the cAps lock

 

Its at "BRIANS RC CORNER " his Lysander has lots of "flappery" including front edge slats ,his is a Bryant model ,he thinks ,

but just notice how it tip stalls ,and really doesn't like flying slowly at all ,He saves her magnificently !

his ultimate landing is very quick too ,they all seem to land like brick's in fact

definitely not what I envisaged when I bought my kit ,

mines a Dave Bryant kit too ,It's untouched and for sale if anyones interested

Noel

Edited By Noel Eaton on 15/12/2013 12:19:23

[Pete B]

Is this the one, Noel?:

All the instructions for inserting links, videos and pictures are found here

Pete

[Noel Eaton]

That's the one ,

thanks Pete

I'll have a try with the" links" "link "later

thanks

Noel

[Roy Hill 3]

That has just put the wind up me, chaps! I built the TN Lysander last year on returning to the hobby after a 30 year sabatical, intending to fly it on passing my 'A'. Passed the 'A' in late Summer, and I've flown other models but still haven't flown the Lizzie and I'm now not going to for another year! Happy Landings, Roy

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I've been away for a couple of days so I've not seen this developing. I would not go as far as Paul on this - and I don't think there is anything about TN's Lysander that should frighten an experienced pilot. My comments were in response to Nigel's original question in the context of him only having very limited flying experience and that on a Junior 60. For someone in that situation I would say Lysander is not suitable.

It does seem to have pretty viscous stall - which would not be a problem on a fighter style warbird - its "par for the course" there. But of course the original Lizzie was a STOL aircraft - capable of landing at extreme low speeds. That I fear is dangerous terriority for this model. But keep the nose down and the speed up - fly it more like a P51 or a Spit and you'll have no problems. OK that isn't scale - but the wing loading is too high for scale combined with the fact that it hasn't got all the slat-trickery of the full-size! - but it is safe.

I didn't mean to give the impression that the Lysander was a bad model for people with experience - its not - but its definitely not a follow-on model from an ab-initio trainer for a newcomer!

BEB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

agree with the above

keep the weight down if your building one, fit servo's last to help balance without adding lead if possible

fly it onto floor, use flaps. bit of breeze also helps. its not for a novice but its not unflyable